That's great - thanks!
4 track recording deck?
- Thread starter kr236rk
- Start date
That's great - thanks!
Mixdown?
Says in 'Mixdown' you need an external two-track, is that right please? I need a dual deck cassette for duplicating purposes so presumably I could use that?
Also have a Hi-Fi VHS VCR which I understand can be bounced to very successfully?
Says in 'Mixdown' you need an external two-track, is that right please? I need a dual deck cassette for duplicating purposes so presumably I could use that?
Also have a Hi-Fi VHS VCR which I understand can be bounced to very successfully?
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yes
Mixdown goes from 4 tape tracks down to stereo Line Out format & gets recorded in stereo on an external recorder, be it another cassette deck, reel-to-reel, or to a stereo WAV file on your compy thru your soundcard. WAV files can then be laid out into tracks and burned onto CDs.
Depending on how much material you're working with, you may set up your final stereo mix and dub all the copies directly off the Portastudio to the external recorder, skipping that 'cassette duplicate' step. Each time you add a generation in a bounce you can pick up some residual noise. I think most people at this level mix to their computers and create CDs and MP3s of their work. Only the die hard analog purists mix to tape. It's a practical thing as well as a matter of taste.
If you're compiling a fair amount of material, your mixes should be recorded in sequence onto an external "master" recorder, and then subsequent copies can be dubbed off the master tape. The standard tape mastering deck is a reel-to-reel running 15 inches per second and is stereo half-track, being the stereo image is laid across the entire width of the tape in one pass. Home reccers often use the Tascam 32, 22-2, Fostex A2, or Model 20. Otari recorders would be deemed more "pro", but it's neither here nor there at this point, only a matter of money. However, none of this precludes you from mastering to a cassette deck or the computer, etc. Tascam has some pretty pro oriented cassette master recorders, the 112, 122, etc. Mixing down to computer is most often a matter of convenience more than an esthetic choice.
Mixdown goes from 4 tape tracks down to stereo Line Out format & gets recorded in stereo on an external recorder, be it another cassette deck, reel-to-reel, or to a stereo WAV file on your compy thru your soundcard. WAV files can then be laid out into tracks and burned onto CDs.
Depending on how much material you're working with, you may set up your final stereo mix and dub all the copies directly off the Portastudio to the external recorder, skipping that 'cassette duplicate' step. Each time you add a generation in a bounce you can pick up some residual noise. I think most people at this level mix to their computers and create CDs and MP3s of their work. Only the die hard analog purists mix to tape. It's a practical thing as well as a matter of taste.
If you're compiling a fair amount of material, your mixes should be recorded in sequence onto an external "master" recorder, and then subsequent copies can be dubbed off the master tape. The standard tape mastering deck is a reel-to-reel running 15 inches per second and is stereo half-track, being the stereo image is laid across the entire width of the tape in one pass. Home reccers often use the Tascam 32, 22-2, Fostex A2, or Model 20. Otari recorders would be deemed more "pro", but it's neither here nor there at this point, only a matter of money. However, none of this precludes you from mastering to a cassette deck or the computer, etc. Tascam has some pretty pro oriented cassette master recorders, the 112, 122, etc. Mixing down to computer is most often a matter of convenience more than an esthetic choice.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
You can bounce or even master down to a HIFI VCR in most cases, keeping in mind that most of the common VCRs have an AGC automatic gain control, which may work okay for most music, but may cause some rising/falling pumping sound of the material or background noise if the program material is too dynamic, has any blank spots void of sound or has long soft passages.
The most high end HIFI VCRs have a manual audio level setting and some sort of metering, but these are more rare and harder to find.
Like the other things above, you may have to experiment a little to find what works best.
You can bounce or even master down to a HIFI VCR in most cases, keeping in mind that most of the common VCRs have an AGC automatic gain control, which may work okay for most music, but may cause some rising/falling pumping sound of the material or background noise if the program material is too dynamic, has any blank spots void of sound or has long soft passages.
The most high end HIFI VCRs have a manual audio level setting and some sort of metering, but these are more rare and harder to find.
Like the other things above, you may have to experiment a little to find what works best.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Also, if you just want to avoid a computer but don't mind using digital, I'd suggest a DAT recorder as a mixdown/external bouncing deck. You can find one nowadays cheap on craigslist --- $50 or less. You still get that feeling of handling a tape too. 
I recorded a six song cd using a 4 track...I recorded drums, bass and rythum on 4 tracks....mixed it to taste and then recorded it to cd....Used another tape and recorded this bed track to two tracks.....I put vocals on one of the other tracks and back-up vocals on the last....I used the spacing in the vocal tracks to record lead breaks on the main vocal track and used the harmony track spacing for the odd fill...then I mixed everything together and recorded it to a reel to reel...when I was satisified with the mix, I then copied the reel to reel recording to a cd....it did take a while when i first started to do home recording but after a few attempts I came up with some very good recordings...your most important tracks are the very first ones that you did...these have to be perfect...if not and you proceed to the second set of recordings you will have to do it all over....but that will also give you more hands on and more experience and as time goes on you will be able to make very good recordings and the average person will not know the difference...and I mixed on a cheap set of house speakers...which is what the average person has at home...Hope this helps....
Cheers,
Bernie
P.S. I used an Audio Technica 6 channel mixer with a built in 4 track recorder....and the sound was amazing...make sure to set your tape speed to MAX......the faster the tape runs, the better your sound quality.....
scotttelles
New member
4-tracky stuff
I bought a Tascam 424 mk. 1 4-track cassette deck in about 1995 or 1996 and I still use it all the time. I reccommend it highly. I hear the mk. 2 is even better. It's simple and easy to use.
I bought a Tascam 424 mk. 1 4-track cassette deck in about 1995 or 1996 and I still use it all the time. I reccommend it highly. I hear the mk. 2 is even better. It's simple and easy to use.
Thanks guys - you just saved me $$$ :-o
So, I'm barking up the wrong treebasically need a 4 track (or higher) cassette recorder with sliders, anything else is home hi-fi ware not studio oriented?
Yes, it's retro analogue interest, I want that vibe, I know the limitations but I sure wish I knew about these pro multi-track cassette recorders back in the day - wow - I had no idea!
What are recommended brands please - Yamaha, Tascam, anything else?
Rod Norman
New member
4-track cassette decks were often used by bouncing tracks. You would record bass and drums and keys first, then mix that down to track one while recording rhythm guitar. Then you would add lead, other solos and vocals. You always started with low frequencies first so you wouldn't lose the highs. You could do that about three times at most successfully. Since analog records on a tape track, there was not way to erase a single track recorded while bouncing. As long as it was on the multitrack you could erase or record over it. Then you would mix down by running a stereo line to another reel to reel, preferably running at 15 ips (a mastering deck)
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
Engineer
Thanks all. The fast speed is obviously the one to go for - more quality - the Tascam had an old C90 on it & it had been recorded to at the faster speed. Fascinating - the sliders un/covered the multiple tracking How crucial is using Type II tape as opposed to Type I ~ would the latter harm the deck heads please?
How crucial is using Type II tape as opposed to Type I ~ would the latter harm the deck heads please?
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
No harm to the heads but it won't sound quite right.
No harm to the heads but it won't sound quite right.
wowser
---------- Update ----------
No harm to the heads but it won't sound quite right.
Thanks, I'll sort some Type II then [thumbs up]
little while later ...
Tried first recording - acoustic guitar - on Type II tape. The result is very clunky, seems to be picking up on the plectrum chops, but some of the clunks are ... like mechanical, nothing to do with the music. Wondering if plugging a mixer between the mic and the Tascam will help, sweeten the audio perhaps? I also seem to be having to turn everything up very high in order to get a decent mic level at the moment.
Using a condenser mic powered by a battery, mini jack into 1/4" converter plug - into the Tascam 1/4" socket.
Also notice the Tascam 'purs' on standby, like a tiny engine on idle. The Tascam does not register this but I recorded the session digitally on a dynamic xlr mic (thro' a mixer - sounded optimal) and/but you can hear the Tascam purring away in the remote background all right.
However, the main worry is the clattering analogue mic audio - what am I doing wrong please? :-o
Thanks.
Tried first recording - acoustic guitar - on Type II tape. The result is very clunky, seems to be picking up on the plectrum chops, but some of the clunks are ... like mechanical, nothing to do with the music. Wondering if plugging a mixer between the mic and the Tascam will help, sweeten the audio perhaps? I also seem to be having to turn everything up very high in order to get a decent mic level at the moment.
Using a condenser mic powered by a battery, mini jack into 1/4" converter plug - into the Tascam 1/4" socket.
Also notice the Tascam 'purs' on standby, like a tiny engine on idle. The Tascam does not register this but I recorded the session digitally on a dynamic xlr mic (thro' a mixer - sounded optimal) and/but you can hear the Tascam purring away in the remote background all right.
However, the main worry is the clattering analogue mic audio - what am I doing wrong please? :-o
Thanks.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
...
The 424mkII has an onboard mixer, so you might want to fiddle with the settings on the channels.
The battery powered condenser mic with the adapter might be the source of the sound quality problem. It's hard to tell.
Why not use the dynamic mic on XLR connector for the next test? Something you know the basic sound quality of?
It might take some experimentation with mic technique and mixer settings to get a satisfactory sound.
If you have to crank the input levels on recording to get a decent level on playback, that may be a matter of calibration, which can be adjusted out but would be a common issue for devices of this age. It comes with the territory. (Of course after verifying the head is spotlessly clean).
I did this in 2001 on a 424mkII with an acoustic guitar and an SM57 mic.
The 424mkII has an onboard mixer, so you might want to fiddle with the settings on the channels.
The battery powered condenser mic with the adapter might be the source of the sound quality problem. It's hard to tell.
Why not use the dynamic mic on XLR connector for the next test? Something you know the basic sound quality of?
It might take some experimentation with mic technique and mixer settings to get a satisfactory sound.
If you have to crank the input levels on recording to get a decent level on playback, that may be a matter of calibration, which can be adjusted out but would be a common issue for devices of this age. It comes with the territory. (Of course after verifying the head is spotlessly clean).
I did this in 2001 on a 424mkII with an acoustic guitar and an SM57 mic.
Thanks Dave,
Hooked up the xlr dynamic today and got a really good response.
Then I got some howling which seemed to have something to do with dis &/or connecting the mic/s. Switching the effects button back and forth cancelled the howling, then I could record again.
But (big but) what I notice is - is that on playback there is a distinctive audio tick approximately every 3 seconds. Earlier I thought it was something I was doing but it is a regular sound.
The Tascam came with a tape - how do I erase please - so that I can test out over a totally blank piece of tape. This tape has multi-tracks on it. Must I erase all 4 tracks, one at a time please?
Still waiting for some new, blank Type IIs to turn up.
Thanks again
Hooked up the xlr dynamic today and got a really good response.
Then I got some howling which seemed to have something to do with dis &/or connecting the mic/s. Switching the effects button back and forth cancelled the howling, then I could record again.
But (big but) what I notice is - is that on playback there is a distinctive audio tick approximately every 3 seconds. Earlier I thought it was something I was doing but it is a regular sound.
The Tascam came with a tape - how do I erase please - so that I can test out over a totally blank piece of tape. This tape has multi-tracks on it. Must I erase all 4 tracks, one at a time please?
Still waiting for some new, blank Type IIs to turn up.
Thanks again
That's great - thanks - if I could get a clean recording anywhere near that I'd be well pleased!
Ran a 'control' on a Sony double deck. Connected the xlr dynamic mic through a mixer, into the Left and Right inputs at the back of the deck. Sounded okay, bit of hiss bacause I had to hike the controls for an optimal vol level, but clear audio. No ticking. That regular tick on the Tascam (sounds like someone sliding a control on and off) turns up on the old cassette recording already on the Tascam, so it's on playback. Even if it's not on record, the ticking on playback would compromise any double tracking - but whatever it is - don't like it 
Any ideas please?
Later -
Outputted the Tascam to the Sony so that I could hear the tape audio (recorded at normal speed) on another system. The tick is there, regular if intermittent - am wondering if it's something to do with an auto control cutting in and out, or something gone haywire on the Tascam mixer? ... sounds like an on/off sound in the background.
This is a shame because I got a brilliant output to second recorder 1st time, but the master tape is wrecked by the clicking - ticking in the background :-|
What is causing this?
But for that I'd probably have an okay draft multi-track by now.
Any ideas please?
Later -
Outputted the Tascam to the Sony so that I could hear the tape audio (recorded at normal speed) on another system. The tick is there, regular if intermittent - am wondering if it's something to do with an auto control cutting in and out, or something gone haywire on the Tascam mixer? ... sounds like an on/off sound in the background.
This is a shame because I got a brilliant output to second recorder 1st time, but the master tape is wrecked by the clicking - ticking in the background :-|
What is causing this?
But for that I'd probably have an okay draft multi-track by now.
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