What exactly is wrong with Behringer brand mixers?

I'm no knee-jerk Behringer hater. I own a DSP1100P, a DSP1124P, a DCX2496 and an ECM8000. I've installed some of their gear in local recording studios. I've used all sorts of other products, including the MX3282 and several other mixers, the quad compressor, the active DIs, speakers etc. Some of it is good stuff for the price and some of it you can't pay me to use due to sound quality or severe reliability problems. Maybe in your application equipment is handled with more care, but in my world of mobile sound for rock bands you find out pretty fast what holds up and what doesn't. Many of their smaller mixers develop problems soon after purchase. I've never had one of their active DIs make it through a show without at least intermittent signal loss. One keyboard player's amp failed routinely at gigs. The quad compressor installed at one club degraded the sound of whatever channel it was inserted on, even in bypass. You have your experience and I have mine.

And that doesn't even touch on their ethics. They are known to have copied other makers' products, right down to the circuit board layout. They had to stop making the MX8000 because it was an exact clone of the Mackie 24.8. They got caught violating FCC rules on dozens of models being imported to the US.
 
Behri stuff is in exactly the same place Peavey was in the '70's: Lots of features at a low price, with the savings coming from using quick 'n' dirty designs (for example, one early Behringer mixer PCB board was an exact trace-for-trace copy of a Mackie mixer) and cheaper components. So you trade reliability, long life and some sound quality for a much lower price.

There's nothing wrong with using them, it's a great way to get started in recording. But don't expect pro-grade results - - there's are excellent reasons that Allen & Heath or Crest mixers cost a lot more.
 
I guess the Behringer "debate" will continue for ever as regards the equipment.

I do believe there is snobbery involved in many cases, recent mic amp tests have shown up some big names! And of course you only get what you pay for but I tried (and measured!) an 802 and for a nifty it did what I needed at the time (I would also like to say that the mixer has spent the last 6months in a bedroom powered continously amping up two mics in my garden!) When I decided I needed better I went A&H.

Business ethics? Well in the light of the millions Starbucks and Amazon owe "me" I really don't give a ***t about Berries! I also heard on R4 a week or so ago that if many of the companies that set up shop in the Third World payed the local taxes they should have that said TW would be $200 BILLION better off!

In any case, twas ever thus. First rule of design: Read all available literature. Now, you think that is so companies nicely-nicely Gentlemen avoid ripping off one another? Come ON!

We have a blood and guts, competitive, capitalist global market. Behringer didn't make THOSE rules. (no I don't like them either!).

Dave.
 
Behri stuff is in exactly the same place Peavey was in the '70's: Lots of features at a low price, with the savings coming from using quick 'n' dirty designs

I trust Peavey stuff from the 70s more than I trust a lot of new Behringer gear. I mixed several small studio performances this year on old Peavey speakers (the ones with the aluminum strips down the sides) driven by a Peavey powered mixer. They sounded pretty good.
 
Business ethics? Well in the light of the millions Starbucks and Amazon owe "me" I really don't give a ***t about Berries! I also heard on R4 a week or so ago that if many of the companies that set up shop in the Third World payed the local taxes they should have that said TW would be $200 BILLION better off!

.
I'm with ya' man. I don't give a crap about big unethical companies ripping off other big unethical companies.
For one thing ...... a little reseacrch seems to show that the often repeated accusation of them Behr. copying a Mackie exactly may or may not even be true. Like most urban legends it may have grown in the telling.

NOTE: before I have someone up in my grill about it I'm not saying they did or didn't because I don't know. I'm just saying a google is finding contradictory reports.
If anyone has something definitive I'll like to see it so that I would know for sure.
Regardless ...... even if they did Ithat wouldn't affect me buying Behringer or not ....... I'm pretty sure Mackie has done unethical stuff as virtually ALL big corps. do.
 
The MX8000 is a feature by feature copy of the Mackie 24.8. I forget which product was a copy down to the circuit board, but I'm pretty sure it was one of the compressors, and the circuit board was a mirror image right down to the labelling. I do remember seeing the photos.

I won't tell anyone how to deal with corporations, but it seems logical to reward the less bad ones and punish the more bad ones with your purchasing decisions if you want to have an impact. As much as I hate voting for a lesser evil it beats not sending any message at all.
 
I'm with ya' man. I don't give a crap about big unethical companies ripping off other big unethical companies.
For one thing ...... a little reseacrch seems to show that the often repeated accusation of them Behr. copying a Mackie exactly may or may not even be true. Like most urban legends it may have grown in the telling.

NOTE: before I have someone up in my grill about it I'm not saying they did or didn't because I don't know. I'm just saying a google is finding contradictory reports.
If anyone has something definitive I'll like to see it so that I would know for sure.
Regardless ...... even if they did Ithat wouldn't affect me buying Behringer or not ....... I'm pretty sure Mackie has done unethical stuff as virtually ALL big corps. do.

Hah! An another things....Many mixer companies make much of "English" EQ? Now that was developed by some unkown old guy, probably in the back lab of Plessey or similar. Does his family get any royalties?

The emergence of digital modelling of everything from guitar amps to tape and vintage mics has moved on apace. The fact that these companies did not get permission OR pay royalties is evidenced by the twee names they give the modelled devices. So a Marshall becomes "British Rock", Fender "Tweed Sound USA", Compressor, "Green Thing"...! Tight arsed, theiving illegitimates or what? (the fact that most of these models sound FA like the originals is incidental!).

Yes, beware apocryphal tales such the early Beatles recordings being "all valves". It ain't necessarily so!

Dave.
 
Hah! An another things....Many mixer companies make much of "English" EQ? Now that was developed by some unkown old guy, probably in the back lab of Plessey or similar. Does his family get any royalties?

The emergence of digital modelling of everything from guitar amps to tape and vintage mics has moved on apace. The fact that these companies did not get permission OR pay royalties is evidenced by the twee names they give the modelled devices. So a Marshall becomes "British Rock", Fender "Tweed Sound USA", Compressor, "Green Thing"...! Tight arsed, theiving illegitimates or what? (the fact that most of these models sound FA like the originals is incidental!).

Yes, beware apocryphal tales such the early Beatles recordings being "all valves". It ain't necessarily so!

Dave.
that's what I'm saying. people talk about seeing the pics of that circuit board so closely copied that even the Mackie logo is on it ..... makes a great story ..... but it's suprisingly hard to find anything other than anecdotal stories.

As for copying feature for feature ..... nothing wrong with that at all. If I make something and someone else comes up with features that people like I'm damned sure gonna put that in my product so I can compete.
When some cars had success with air conditioning other cars quickly added that to the mix ................ when some TVs went color so did others ..... as puters added features other manufacturers added the same features.
And Mackie is just another big corp ..... I guaruntee you that they did anything that Behringer did ..... they just hid it better.
The ONLY people in the world I care about are me and my family and the poor and suffering. I don't care even a tiny bit about 'punishing' evil corps unless the corp is actually evil and killing people or poisoning the Earth or something like that.
hardball competition doesn't rise to the level of 'evil' as far as I'm concerned. YMMV.
 
I am in the process of building a home studio. I had a Behringer mixer that I used to use for live recording and worked well.
Unfortunately, it was not going to be enough for my future studio set up. So I thought I was doing the right thing by sticking with a brand that
I had a good history with. So, I picked up a brand new Behringer Zenyx X 2442 USB mixer that has all the right connections for what I want to do.
Suddenly, all my friends who have experience in this realm but use other brand mixers, are talking like I bought an electronic trash can of sorts. I am new to home recording, yes that's true. But I have had nothing but positive experiences with Behringer mixers for years. So, I want to ask all of you experienced folks on here, What exactly is wrong with Behringer mixers? The way I see it, every brand has some problems at some point. Am I really going to get that much better quality with a mackie or yamaha brand to justify the price difference? I paid about $315 out the door for my brand new mixer during a black Friday sale! The mixer seems to be working fine so far.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Manny

I have been using Behringer for years now, Xenyx 1832 board, BXL3000A Bass Amp, B1 Condensor mic, compressor/limiter, pedals etc. Behringer started out like many companies, making copies of others until they got big enough to make their own stuff of course at the beginning there were some quality issues and the snobs will never let anyone forget it, because of course everyone has tons of money to spend so they can look down their noses at those that don't. Bottom line if you are happy with it the hell with everyone else, more money for you to spend to get whatever else you need. How many people start out with a top of the line Strat? Oh wait I won't start playing guitar until I can buy the best!
 
-1. I've gone in the opposite direction. I started with a whole bunch of outboard gear, and accumulated more . . . but now I've shed it all. Effectively I now only have my firepod and a headphone amp. Everything else is in the box. It took a while to get used to it, but it satisfied my carving for simplicity.

-2. I don't even have a computer monitor hooked up to my system. I am in the complete opposite direction as you: I don't even have a computer monitor hooked into my system. If I want to know what frequency needs adjusting, I just listen for it.
 
I have been using Behringer for years now, Xenyx 1832 board, BXL3000A Bass Amp, B1 Condensor mic, compressor/limiter, pedals etc. Behringer started out like many companies, making copies of others until they got big enough to make their own stuff of course at the beginning there were some quality issues and the snobs will never let anyone forget it,

You have it backwards. They started out designing their own products and building them to high standards in German factories then slid into copying other companies' stuff and making it cheaply in China. The lowered quality of the products was a deliberate business decision, not problems with an initial manufacturing run.

because of course everyone has tons of money to spend so they can look down their noses at those that don't. Bottom line if you are happy with it the hell with everyone else, more money for you to spend to get whatever else you need. How many people start out with a top of the line Strat? Oh wait I won't start playing guitar until I can buy the best!

If too many people buy the copies then the companies that spent the money on developing the originals will go out of business and Behringer won't have anything to copy. If they can't copy they will have to spend the money on product development and build that into their pricing. I won't tell anyone not to buy Behringer (I've done it) but it's important to know the consequences.
 
If too many people buy the copies then the companies that spent the money on developing the originals will go out of business and Behringer won't have anything to copy. If they can't copy they will have to spend the money on product development and build that into their pricing. I won't tell anyone not to buy Behringer (I've done it) but it's important to know the consequences.
I see your point but Mackie didn't really come up with very much that was new about mixers other than the packaging. Mixers and EQs and bussing were all well established technologies by the time Mackie (springing from Tapco who kinda came up with the tiny mixer package) started making mixers.
Perhaps that's no longer true in the digital age where actual new technologies are springing up all the time.
But the original all analog circuitries were pretty much public domain by the time Mackie got hold of them.

I do get your point, to repeat that, I just don't neccessarily think Mackie is specifically worthy of that sort of protection.
 
As for copying feature for feature ..... nothing wrong with that at all. If I make something and someone else comes up with features that people like I'm damned sure gonna put that in my product so I can compete.

They also copied the look and layout of the 24.8 so closely that you could hardly tell them apart from ten feet away. That's unethical whether it's a legal violation or not. To some degree form follows function (all cars are starting to look the same because of aerodynamics) but details that are not dictated by function are a matter of trade dress (decorative details like grille designs) and can't be copied too closely. Behringer makes products intended to be mistaken for more expensive gear in order to take market share from the companies that spent the money developing the original.

This article has some interesting details: On Behringer’s Track Record, “Value,” and “Copies”
 
They also copied the look and layout of the 24.8 so closely that you could hardly tell them apart from ten feet away. That's unethical whether it's a legal violation or not. To some degree form follows function (all cars are starting to look the same because of aerodynamics) but details that are not dictated by function are a matter of trade dress (decorative details like grille designs) and can't be copied too closely. Behringer makes products intended to be mistaken for more expensive gear in order to take market share from the companies that spent the money developing the original.

This article has some interesting details: On Behringer’s Track Record, “Value,” and “Copies”
like when Mackie came out with teh Onyx mixers Behri came out with the Zenyx.
yeah ...... some of their stuff is clearly copied lookwise.
Thanks for the link ...... an interesting article.
 
You have it backwards. They started out designing their own products and building them to high standards in German factories then slid into copying other companies' stuff and making it cheaply in China. The lowered quality of the products was a deliberate business decision, not problems with an initial manufacturing run.



You certainly got that right sound guy from Boulder!

In fact the first few runs of the Behringer compressors are just as highly sot after as Drawmer compressors. Keep an eye on ebay and you will see.
 
In fact the first few runs of the Behringer compressors are just as highly sot after as Drawmer compressors. Keep an eye on ebay and you will see.

Weren't the original Berri comps non-Asian manufacture? Kind of like the Mackie products. I remember when Mackie was considered a great product which is why I bought a 24.8 and it has been a great board to me. And this is the same with a lot of other brands until they send manufacturing overseas to cheap labor, cutting costs but without reducing their retail prices...cheaper production labor costs and (arguably) materials/QC but the profits don't trickle down to the customer.
 
Weren't the original Berri comps non-Asian manufacture? Kind of like the Mackie products. I remember when Mackie was considered a great product which is why I bought a 24.8 and it has been a great board to me. And this is the same with a lot of other brands until they send manufacturing overseas to cheap labor, cutting costs but without reducing their retail prices...cheaper production labor costs and (arguably) materials/QC but the profits don't trickle down to the customer.



That's correct ... non-Asian manufacturing of there original stuff.

The MDX 2100 to be precise. compressor/limiter/gate.
The 1600 and the 2400 weren't all that bad either.
 
Weren't the original Berri comps non-Asian manufacture? Kind of like the Mackie products. I remember when Mackie was considered a great product which is why I bought a 24.8 and it has been a great board to me. And this is the same with a lot of other brands until they send manufacturing overseas to cheap labor, cutting costs but without reducing their retail prices...cheaper production labor costs and (arguably) materials/QC but the profits don't trickle down to the customer.

"Profits" might not get to customers but often prices are held in the face of rising costs in all other areas (have you read how cheap energy is in the States now as a result of "fracking"?) Just about all manufacturers now HAVE to chase down costs if they are to survive and keep the jobs at home and in other countries.
We all know this hyper-consumerism merrygoround cannot go on indefinitely but who is going to jump off first? We have one Earth but we carry on as if we had 3 or 4. The only solution I can envisage is the rise of a Green dictator with a VERY big stick!

Dave.
 
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