Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 news

Yea it looks nice. Although having just got SD 2.0 less than a year ago for $99, and really pleased with it, I'm not sure I'll be getting 3.0 right away. But maybe. Hell, I don't know yet. Hmm, on the fence...

The biggest plus for me is the 6 (or 7?) new kits. The Avatar kit can get old quick, since I never got any expansion packs, which is probably not even worth considering now. Just a few expansion kits costs as much as buying 3.0 (unless those all skyrocket down now)

Think I'll keep working with 2.0 for a while, and keep my eyes on reviews and such for the next few months, and make a decision then.

I wonder if you can finally pan individual cymbals now, without having to make those dreaded X-drums every song. That would definitely help to speed up my decision making process...
 
Think I'll keep working with 2.0 for a while, and keep my eyes on reviews and such for the next few months, and make a decision then.

You made me think of another reason to hold off - paying to be a beta tester. Most of the time these fresh, from the ground up software packages need a few patches before they're truly ready to be released into the wild.
 
Geez, I thought that the East-West drum libraries were storage hogs. I'm sure 3.0 will spark an arms race (no puns intended). Massive G.A.S. is a'comin'.

Paj
8^)

P.S.: And it goes to 11(.1)! Sorry, Nigel.
 
BTW, since SD 3.0 brings up the storage issue: I have been happy switching over to GPT-formatted hard drives (PC). As far as drives >2TB go, I've had a chattery 4TB Toshiba but the Seagate FireCuda drives are very quiet and not expensive.

Paj
8^)
 
Any details on the in-the-plug processing units and FX? Maybe a new/better EQ, compressor, etc? I really don't like the limitations of SD2's compressor and EQ. Hopefully something better next time around.
 
Pulling the trigger on the SD3 upgrade from 2. Here goes nothin....

anyone else pick it up? errr. have a question already :)
 
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So what's the question?

Yeah...been getting the emails since they announced.
I was going to pull the trigger a couple of days ago, but was sidetracked with all that Equifax data breach nonsense. Took me forever to freeze my credit reports on all three agencies. Endless attempts via internet and phone.

I'm picking up SD3 tomorrow when I'm at work (faster download, hate this new sales model, I miss boxed versions)...and will be installing it tomorrow night.
It has many things I was hoping they would fix/change, so very excited to move to SD3. Glad they made sure it was backward compatible with the older EZX and SDX sample packs, plus the amount of new stuff you get with SD3 makes it a very sweet upgrade.
Just in time for some new stuff I've had on the shelf.
 
So what's the question?

Ah, I posted them on the Toontrack forum. Got immediate responses. Wasn't sure if anyone here picked it up yet or not.

I'm very pleased with the interface and its layout; the many new options and tweaks available. Effects, for example, were long overdue. Now, we can do reverb right from the vst - but not just a single verb, they give options for plate, room, etc.., with pre-delay and other tweakable settings. There are a few compressors as well, including an 1176. A few EQ's, transient shapers, etc... the effects are awesome. So glad to have that now. There are a TON of snares and kicks included in the core library. Sure, the bottom 1/2 or 1/4 are kinda odd sounding, but you never know if you have a bridge or tune that calls for something different. There are apparently electronic kit sounds too, but I haven't found those yet as they are NOT in the drop down list when replacing instruments.

Another great thing is the ability to change the size of the screen while working in your DAW as a plugin. So, no more dragging the Superior screen around trying to find a good spot for it, and then moving it out of the way later - I can now set the whole Superior plugin to 60% and it stays out of the way so that I can stop, rewind, record, etc, from the bottom of the DAW screen.

Unfortunately, I haven't been thrilled with the actual sounds. For softer rock and pop, this is excellent. But for harder alternative stuff, I can't find a good setup, particularly the cymbals. In my opinion, the Rock Warehouse had the best cymbals, and I've been "adding" them into the kit to replace the newer ones. (x-drum is gone, it's now just called "add" an instrument).

The HD space required is nuts - and I did the basic install with the core library and MIDI grooves. Nothing else.

Let me know what you think of the thing, especially the sounds themselves. Interested to hear your thoughts on it.
 
The thing about SD3 that's of no real interest for me was the FX/Processing...I never used it even in SD2.
I build the kit, maybe tweak the level/panning balance of the kit...maybe retune some of the drums...and then once I have my groove finished in my DAW MIDI Drum Editor...I dump out from SD into the DAW as audio tracks...Kick, Snare, L/R Toms, L/R Overheads and Hat.

I then lose the SD VSTi in that DAW project, and am working with just the audio tracks...same as if I had recorded a real kit.
I know that most people want to forever have the tweakability of the MIDI VSTi right through the mixing phase...but I don't bother.
Less shit to bog down the DAW, and the commitment for the kit is made. Anything in the kit that needs a little tweaking, I can do to the drum audio tracks. AFA FX/processing...I deal with it the same as any of the other audio tracks...as part of the mixing.
I then record the rest of my tracks to those drum tracks.

Being able to enlarge the GUI is a nice thing...I wish every plugin manufacturer would do that. I find most are too small...and then you have some that are way too big....and you're stuck with it.

AFA the sounds...I'll have to wait until I audition all the kits that are included...but TBH, I already have an extensive library, so whatever they give will be a nice addition. I also use a separate internal HD just for my drum samples only. I think it's like 350 GB...so it should be no problem to fit all that stuff, but I will just install the "basic" option, same as I've done with all my other sample packs.
I'm sure all the extra mic positions are great...George Massenburg is a master at miking....but really have little use for all those ambient samples. The one set of amb/room mic samples you get with the basic installations are usually all that I need. Maybe if I ever get into some post-Rock or Jazz kind of stuff where the bigger ambiences can breathe and come into play...but not any time soon.
 
I haven't been bouncing them out for my recordings lately. I kept forgetting to save the MIDI file and if I wanted to go back and edit a drum part, it was forever gone. So, I've been attempting to mix them within.
 
I always create a Project_Drums folder. I do all my SD work there and save it.
Then I output the audio, and start a new project folder. I just keep the basic project template I had in the Project_Drums (time sigs, BPM, etc) and remove the MIDI/VSTi stuff.

That way, I "could" go all the way back to the MIDI stuff, edit, and then output the new audio drum tracks....but I've never done that.
Most of the fixing that I might need to do, I do to the drum audio tracks and it is enough.

Now if you're talking about going back and changing the groove, changing the drum samples...that's more involved, and at that point it's a whole production change.
If you're talking about changing the compression, or the reverb or other FX/processing that is on the VSTi SD drums....well, that's why I never do FX/processing when in the SD VSTi phase, and instead I save it for the mix phase, and apply it to the drum audio tracks.
 
I'm pretty much done with Toontrack. I used EZDrummer for a while but it seemed more like a platform for selling expensive kit upgrades than a viable program in it's own right. Basic sounds like a tambourine were not even included. I'm using Addictive Drummer at the moment but not crazy about it either.
 
There is a huge programmability difference between EZDrummer and Superior Drummer.

Any drum app you buy will have additional sample packs that you can buy/add on....no one gives them for free.
I like the fact that they keep adding more packs....otherwise you would be stuck with what the app comes with and that's it.
It's no different with any other type of VSTi instrument.
 
I'm curious...those of you who are getting SD3 as an upgrade to SD2...are you keeping both installed (which you can) or just going with SD3?

The first time around when I started with EZD, I installed SD2 and kept EZD....I thought it might be of use.
Either on the next DAW build or soon after...EZD was gone from my system. I'm thinking the same will happen with SD2.

I think I may also lose the Slate Trigger installation, which has been on my DAW for a couple of years now, and frankly, I just never found it all that appealing. I mean, it does what it's supposed to, and the Slate drums samples are good...I just never liked the interface, so I ended up rerecording drum tracks rather than using Trigger to sample replace/augment.
Now SD3 looks like its drum replacement options are really good, and totally integrated with the rest of the SD app...unlike Trigger.
I just prefer having it all in one app, so this is great with SD3.
 
I haven't decided yet. Thought about deleting it as I was installing SD3, but didn't do it. Is there a way I can keep the kit pieces? Prob not, so I'll end up holding onto it, unfortunately. I don't want the vst or standalone, the interface or anything else...but I do want the Black Beauty snare and some kicks. So... unless there's a way, looks like I'll be wasting a ton of space.
 
Based on what I read at the Toontrack forums...you can just uninstall the SD2 plugin, and leave the stock kits.
I haven't gotten to the SD uninstall yet.
I would definitely first install SD3 first, let if find all the sample packs, etc...and then go about removing the SD2 plugin.
 
After a couple days with the new sounds, I can conclude the reason I don't like the new library is that the intensity with which the new snares and toms are hit is very low. Even at 98 (my MIDI tops at 100), it sounds similar to what would be an 88 on SD2's Rock Warehouse. I tried implementing some new snare drums into existing songs and there's a complete lack of "belief". The drummer doesn't seem to be hitting anything near as hard as he would for those particular songs, and the velocities are near maxed. Even 99 or 100 doesn't do it. There's no hard crack or whip in the snare hits. I'm assuming the Rock Warehouse drummer actually played the pieces in front of him harder, like you would for hard rock songs.

For softer rock, this would be good. I don't see it adding value to my current tunes. I'll use the SD3 interface but load my other libraries.
 
I haven't gotten there yet...though, I would find it hard to believe that a guy like George Massenburg wouldn't know how to capture all the right stuff from a drum kit for SD3 and end up with lame levels/velocities.

Thing is...in all the various sample packs I already have, there are obvious differences with levels/velocities...so it's not like they intended for all the sample packs to have identical output...all hitting the same reference levels/velocities.
I found some packs in the past to be annoyingly louder than others....etc....so I adjust as needed.
Not seeing anyone else mention that on the Toontrack forums...but I didn't dig through every thread.

I would think that rather than comparing Rock Warehouse to the SD3 samples...compare the level/velocity differences within SD3...and is there a difference between 30-60-90...etc. I would be surprised if there wasn't.

Not sure why you only have MIDI going to 100...?
Every MIDI parameter I've ever seen is 0-127...of course, the actual output is relative.
That's the MIDI spec AFAIK.
 
Yeah Stuido One's piano roll/MIDI layout has velocities topping out at 100. I've noticed the rock warehouse is much louder than other packs.. I have to turn that instruments volume down quite a bit, comparatively. Cymbals in particular.

There do have a "metal" song/groove set, so you'd think the hardest hits would be rather chunky...not so, to my ears.
 
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