EZDrummer2 vs. Jamstix vs. ???

Xcaliber

New member
I'm using EZDrummer (1) right now to program drums, but I'm planning to upgrade to EZD2 to take advantage of the "song writing" feature (being able to build parts with Tap2Find). Yesterday I saw a thread here talking about Jamstix and I watched some videos on it…I'm really impressed with the sales/marketing of it, but I'm curious if anyone has tried both and found one better than the other? I would like to spend less time programming (clicking in the midi) on drums.

Are there others out there that you'd recommend?
 
I haven't used Jamstix, but recently upgraded from EZD1 to EZD2. It's a big difference and in a good way. I'm glad I finally upgraded.
 
You probably saw the conversation Minerman and I were having on the Reaper 5.0 thread. I haven't upgraded to EZD 2, but here is what I understand from using EZD 1 and Jamstix. The two work in different ways. With EZD, you working with pre-recorded grooves. Jamstix has a "brain" function that will improvise grooves based on parameters you set.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages of Jamstix is it's complexity. The various parameters not only affect the groove, but interact with each other. The results of tweaking a parameter are not always predictable or desirable. They are also not explained well in the documentation. The Jamstix motto, "just play with it," may be about the best advice you're going to get for figuring out this program. There is a help forum, but it is not particularly active. Other problems: at present, the interface is cumbersome and difficult. Don't expect to duplicate or move song parts by dragging and dropping. That is supposed to be coming in the next version. A particular Achilles heel of Jamstix is fills. Unless you are willing to stick to very basic drum parts, it is well-nigh impossible to get fills that sound natural and fit the feel of the song. Chances are, you will wind up doing a lot of hand-editing. Trying to do this within the Jamstix editor is world of frustration. It's far simpler to export the MIDI output into your DAW for further editing. Given all this, is it actually easier to use Jamstix than pre-recorded grooves, or to create your own? Yes, sometimes. Jamstix gives you the ability to audition many different kinds of grooves quickly. Want a little swing or shuffle? Want the drummer to play a bit behind or ahead of the beat? No problem. You also have a large variety of kits to play with. For this reason, it is a useful songwriting tool. There is actually a song-building editor within Jamstix. I predict that you will spend a few weeks or months pulling out your hair, then abandon it. Fortunately, many of us who stuck with Jamstix discovered that there is a better workflow. Both Minerman and I use Jamstix to create basic grooves, then export those to the DAW where most of the editing and song arranging takes place.

Regarding EZD, as I said, I haven't upgraded to version 2. I'm told the groove-matching capabilities of the new version are useful. But you are still working with pre-recorded MIDI grooves. That brings me to the key problem with EZD, and the reason I no longer use it. The selection of MIDI grooves in the standard package is limited. Painfully limited. They simply don't offer a serious selection, especially if you want grooves that swing or shuffle. Expect to purchase additional grooves from Toontracks, from a third party vendor like Groove Monkey, or else spend a lot of time writing your own. Further, there are only a few preset kits. You can edit them to some extent, but the sample library is not vast. I came to the conclusion that the basic EZD package, which cost close to $200, is really nothing more than a platform to allow Toontracks to sell more of their expensive addon sets. You could easily spend a thousand dollars getting a reasonably complete library of grooves and sounds. For that amount of money, there are many better options.

If I could purchase either or both programs again, I would buy Jamstix. But I have spent about 1.5 years with the program, so I know it's uses and limitations. I wouldn't bother with EZD again.

But...maybe EZD 2 is the shizzle. I wouldn't know. Hope this helps.
 
Robus pretty much hit the nail on the head about Jamstix. It has the possibility to be a great program, but it's complicated, & has a few quirks I personally don't like (but I have found a couple/few work-arounds for)...

I've never used EZD2, but I have EZD1 & Superior, & there's no comparison between those two IMHO. Superior's sounds are much better (to me anyway), & you have much more control over 'em, but the thing about drum vsti's that actually make them sound real is the performance/midi, which brings me back to Jamstix...

One of the quirks I'm talking about is I could never get Jamstix to map a custom kit for Superior. So, I re-mapped Superior to fit the midi Jamstix spits out. I shouldn't have to do this, but, I do. Some folks are able to get it to do this, but I'm not one of 'em. But the work-around I made for myself does a pretty fair job, IMO...

Another thing is the fills (probably the biggie to me), sometimes it nails it, other times, I have to keep going over & over it. But, the good thing about this is you can save those fills, then re-import them & edit to your heart's content...

I never use the Jamstix internal sounds, I just could never bond with them. They're not terrible, but the sounds in my other drum vsti's are much better IMO, YMMV...

Jamstix 4 is supposed to be coming out soon, but I really don't know what's supposed to be upgraded. If they fix some of the issues I have with it, I might consider the upgrade, if not, then I won't...

I've been using Jamstix for about 2 years now too, & have barely scratched the surface of what it's truly capable of, so these quirks I mention could very well be user-error on my part, I dunno. I will say it's a deep, complicated program, but it does a better job at behaving like a drummer than any midi loop you'll find, just getting it to do what you want it to takes time to learn...

Not trying to sway you either way, but I'd wait for Jamstix 4 & see what the changes are myself. I've also heard that Superior 3 is coming this year, dunno how true that is, but that may be something to look into also, if it happens...

I'm sure EZD2 & the current version of Jamstix 3 work together fine, but I don't know that from experience...
 
As far as midi groove files goes, the selection is there, but yeah, most aren't that great. But you edit them. Find the basic grove for each section of the song then go into each measure and edit the hits. It is tedious work, but removes the repetition and roboticness from the song.

EZD2 has a different approach with whole songs or longer groove files.
 
Chili, do you find you have to edit the grooves that you create in EZD2 as much as just "finding" them in EZD1? From what I've seen there's more flexibility when creating the drum parts in EZD2 and I was hoping that would be enough to help me create songs.

At this point I'm finding that writing the parts other than guitar (my main instrument) are causing me to get lost in the shuffle. I spent so much time trying to find/create/match a drum beat to my guitar riffs that the create process and flow is hampered.

I can get the upgrade for EZD2 for $90. I already have the Metal Machine expansion and was planning on adding more as I go. I did find in my demo "shopping" on YouTube that the sounds from Addictive Drums sounded way better than EZD's, but I wasn't really sure about the ones from Jamstix.
 
I haven't written or recorded any songs yet, with EZD2. Just a lot of tooling around. The groove files are longer, like about 8 measures vs 1 or 2 measures in EZD1. They have some complete songs and a lot of complete sections (intro, verse, chorus, etc). I think I probably wouldn't edit as much as I did with EEZD1. I could definitely get by without editing at all, but I kinda like doing that.

I have a lot of expansion packs from EZD1 and they all work nicely with EZD2. If you go the EZD route, buy expansion packs when they're on sale.
 
EZD2 - you still need to audition grooves, but once you find osmething you like, you then put it into the EZD editor and make it 'your own'. For example if there are 16 snare hits, 24 kick hits and 32 hi-hat hits in an 8-bar groove, you can adjust each instrument (or change them), so you can have 24 snare hits, 28 kicks (some accent kicks), etc. In EZD2 you can adjust the pitch of each instrument, so this does make for 'custom' kit sounds, too.
As to cost - shop the sales! At least twice a year Toontrack goes on sale for about half the price. My total cost for EZD1 then the upgrade was about $110. The EZX packs are $30 each when they go on sale.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm gonna grab the demo for Jamstix and just check it out. Then I'll decide which one to go with. I appreciate the insight.
 
Awesome. Which ever way you choose, you'll have a lot of fun putting your songs together.
 
I'll be posting my songs for critique shortly!

One more question, this seems obvious, but I have to ask…with EZD2 I assume the more expansions you have installed the more it has to look through when using the Tap2Find feature. That being said can I import drum loops that I get from other sources? Free ones I find on the 'net or stuff I get with a subscription, etc?

Thanks again for all your help.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm gonna grab the demo for Jamstix and just check it out. Then I'll decide which one to go with. I appreciate the insight.
Unless it's changed a lot, the Jamstix demo is really, really limited compared to the full version man. It might give you an idea of what the program is capable of, but again, it's pretty limited...I can't remember if the demo allows you to use the full Jamstix kit or not, but I do know you can't use it to send midi to another vsti (which was the whole point for me buying it)...

If it were me, already having EZD1 (and knowing what I know now), I'd pass on EZD2 myself, & try to get Superior, but that's just me because I've used these vsti's for a pretty good while now...
 
If it were me, already having EZD1 (and knowing what I know now), I'd pass on EZD2 myself, & try to get Superior, but that's just me because I've used these vsti's for a pretty good while now...

I have SD2 and EZ2. I think EZD2 is considerably better than EZD1.
 
I have SD2 and EZ2. I think EZD2 is considerably better than EZD1.

Agreed. Even though I never use EZD2 samples any more, the Tap 2 Find feature comes in handy so often in those initial stages of putting a song together. Since I suck at actually playing my e-kit, just being able to quickly put together a groove that matches the feel of a new song is invaluable. Once I've got guitars and bass recorded to the canned patterns, I can go back and spend the million takes that I need to actually hammer out a keeper drum track on my e-kit.
 
Agreed. Even though I never use EZD2 samples any more, the Tap 2 Find feature comes in handy so often in those initial stages of putting a song together. Since I suck at actually playing my e-kit, just being able to quickly put together a groove that matches the feel of a new song is invaluable. Once I've got guitars and bass recorded to the canned patterns, I can go back and spend the million takes that I need to actually hammer out a keeper drum track on my e-kit.

The Tap 2 Find feature is what is drawing me to EZD2. I downloaded the demo for Jamstix and it was really complicated (which you guys did warn me about) so I think I'm going EZD2. I'm looking for something to help kickstart my song creation and I think it's the right tool for that job.

---------- Update ----------

ToonTrack has all theeir software on sale again right now - 40/50% off.

I saw that this morning. Thanks for the heads up!
 
If it were me, already having EZD1 (and knowing what I know now), I'd pass on EZD2 myself, & try to get Superior, but that's just me because I've used these vsti's for a pretty good while now...

I don't think SD has the Tap 2 Find feature though does it? I'm looking for quicker ways to find midi beats to use in songs.
 
What midi packs does everyone have for EZD1/2? I'm thinking about getting the DFH one and maybe either Rock! or the Pop/Rock one.
 
The Classic and Nashville. I haven't used the 4-mic Classic much, I'm just too used to having all the toms, snare and hi-hat on separate tracks. I didn't find the Nashville grooves very useful, but the sounds are good. I pretty much write my own grooves now, based on what EZD2 produces, then I edit to suit.
 
What midi packs does everyone have for EZD1/2? I'm thinking about getting the DFH one and maybe either Rock! or the Pop/Rock one.

I have pretty much every midi expansion pack they've got, but I never use them anymore, I use Jamstix for all my beats/fills/etc...I have imported some Toontrack stuff into Jamstix & let the "drummers" do their thing, but I think Jamstix does a good enough job (for the most part) so I don't use 'em very much...

But, since you asked, I'm gonna say Rock Songs, because there are actual songs that you can grab parts of to mix/match for yourself...You have to read between the lines about the song names though, there's a folder in that pack called "Jet Lady", which is actually "Jet City Woman" by Queensryche...I don't really know what kind of music you'll be doing with these midi packs though, so YMMV...

Any one of the 3 Songwriter's Packs would probably be good too...
 
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