What mixing board is best for the money

jimistone

long standing member
This will be a mixing board for a church to replace a 16 channel analog. We are interested in a digital board...24 channels if possible...as compact as possible....as versital as possible....
For a $3000 ballpark budget.
Any input and recommendations would be appreciated.
 
Presonus Live 24.4.2 or Behringer x32 both Around $3000 in the US. Lots of reviews on the net just google. another thing about both mixers is that you can do away with any outboard as they have all the eq, compressors, gates and effects you will need.

Alan.
 
Depends who's gonna run the new console.

If it were I ... I would go for the Behringer X32. No questions asked.
The easy with the performance of it is a great plus. It does what all the other digital consoles do right up to the $20,000. mark.

HERE is a link to a thread I started about the X32. It has plenty of links from there to youtube demonstrations and reviews.
 
I think its neck and neck between the 2, however I recently had a chance to use a Presonus live with the Virtual Studio Live software on a computer plugged into it, that was a whole lot easier to use.

Check them both out, as moresound said ^^^^ it may come down to which one is easier to use for whoever is the operator(s).

Alan.
 
For live work (at least the way I use a console) the lack of motorised faders on the Presonus rules that one out before it gets out of the starting gate. Without scene presets, you might as well go analogue--and without motorised faders scene presets become a whole lot more awkward to use effectively.

Which leaves us with the x32--fortunately, every report (and the play I had a few months back) result in very favourable reviews.

Your only other digital option for that budget would be to check out the second hand market.
 
The behringer and I believe the presonus can be ran remotely from an ipad.

Both can.

Motorised faders, some like it some don't, again it depends on the user. No so necessary on the presonus as it has a full number of channels where by the Behringer has layers so you need them.

Alan.
 
For me it's not just the idea of layered channels though, Alan.

On a digital desk (and I made the move to digital about 9 years ago) I make huge use of scene presets--and, when I change scene, I want the fader positions to reflect the reality of what is passing through the board.

This is a church setting so let's make up a related scenario:

Scene 1 is the organ playing "walk in" music. For this, I want the organ fader(s) up but nothing else.
Scene 2 is a processional, involving organ but also a 3 or 4 piece band. For this, I want the organ, guitar, bass, keyboard and 6 drum faders up.
Scene 3 is the minister speaking, so there's a quick cross fade from Scene 2 to just the minister's radio mic.

....and so on.

For me, the ability to use scene presets was probably the biggest single advantage of the move to digital--but motorised faders are an absolute necessity to get the best out of this feature.

Yes, I guess it CAN be done without but the lack of the visual cue as to where your faders are makes live mixing far more difficult, at least in my view. As I say, when it first came out, I had a look at the Presonus and decided to "walk on by" specifically for this reason.
 
Thanks for the input guys. The funny thing is that these were the 2 muxes I was looking at. A singer (gospel quartet) I know has the 16 channel version of the presonus and highly recommends it. I liked the features on the behringer too. I have heard for years and years on this very BBS that behringer is total crap and to stay away from it. My only experience with behringer is a crossover that malfunctioned a fried a nice set of horns in my main speakers several years ago. While a realize that most all companies have some jewels and some dogs behringer has really been bashed over and over again. So, I guess what I'm getting at is no matter how good the features are...reliability plays a key role. That being said ...I know nothing about the reliability of either board.

Heres the thing...
I will be running sound a lot but others who may have no background in sound or even an ear to hear a good mix may end up behind the board at times. I picture myself using a digital board and locking in the setting for the preacher on the pulpit mic...locking in the perfecto monitor and main mix for my vocals....locking in the right settings for each of the other singers...the choir....the youth pastors lapel mic...so on and so forth. Each of these settings or scenes would be saved and written down in a reference sheet so when someone volunteers to run sound when I'm not there all they have to do is punch in the number that coincides to the saved scene that is already preset.
Does that make sense?
 
It makes sense and a digital board can take you part of the way in that direction.

However, the problem is that there's never a one-size-fits-all perfect setting that works every time. Your pastor may have a sore throat and speak quietly one day while the choir may have an enthusiastic day and sing extra loud the next.

Scene presets on a digital board can give you very good starting points by bringing up the right channels and fading down unnecessary ones--but your volunteers will still have to be well enough trained to do some final tweaks by ear.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the motorized faders major benifit...on a preset scene the faders are already where they need to be? On a board without motorized faders when you move the fader...even barely touching it by accident the volume adjusts immediately to that level. So if that fader happens to be all the way up and the particular preset you're using has the fader set way down the volume would spike up to all the way if the fader is moved even a tiny bit.
Is this correct?
That was my experience with a korg d1600 recorder I had that uses stored mix scenes ( my only experience with digital mixing)
 
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Well, for me the motorised faders go beyond "major benefit" and into "necessity" but, as you can see from Witzendoz's post, there are various ways of working and everyone has different priorities.

The Presonus does offer a way to move the faders manually to the right position without the big changes in level you mention but, particularly on a scene with lots of channels, it seemed too slow and fiddly to me.

That's why, of your shortlisted mixers, I'd go for the x32 or else prowl the second hand market.
 
Ok, I've read the online reviews on each board and it seems both boards are getting very good reviews. I must say that the behringer give you a lot more for the money.
I think it's the obvious choice but...

2 concerns:
Do you guys think the behringer 32x will be a solid dependable piece of equipment?

And

If it screws up how good is behringer at fixing it and getting back to you quickly?

Ditto on the presonus
 
The X32 has been out on the market for some time now (longer in beta testing) With no major complaints!
If needed the issue of fixing any Behringer product has been revamped.

The thing with the X32 is that the whole Behringer company is riding on this product as a make or break situation.
And the fact that Behringer purchase Midas and is using their preamps and technology is the winner in my book.
 
Yeah, basically as Moresound says. The x32 has been delivered for about six months now and I've yet to hear of any breakdowns or problems. I was just totting up and I personally know 22 individuals/companies who have bought them (with number 23 taking delivery next week).

Of course the downside of that reliability is that I don't know anyone who's had to go back to Behringer for service. However, the x32 is a bit of a leap of faith for Behringer as they try to capitalise on their purchase of Midas (one of the most expensive mixers in the world) and persuade professionals to use Behringer gear. I'd be greatly surprised if they didn't have a plan to impress when any service IS needed. However, that can only be a guess on my part.

Question for Americans...Behringer used to have a policy of swapping new for old on any warranty service (in the USA--not Europe). Does that still exist and does it apply to the x32?
 
Not sure of that, Bob.
For the only thing that has gone down has been one of their Di boxes for me and that sits in the broken pile at the shop for it only cost me $19.
 
Regarding service/repairs, I had occasion to exchange messages last night with the guy in charge of marketing the x32 so asked if they had any plans for servicing. His reply is:

Thanks for the feedback.

As far as repairs we know, "the show must go on", and do everything possible to make things right and get you up and running in event of an issue.
Given that we have sold over 22,000-plus X32 consoles in the past months, the number of issues has been extremely low.
Let your friend know that we recently built and put into service a new Care Center in Las Vegas, NV.
This also houses our Midas and Klark Teknik brands and is a true modern hi-tech facility.

Our lead X32 tech is Chase McKnight. Below is his direct phone number at the Vegas facility.
CHASE DIRECT: 702-371-0830 or chase.mcknight@music-group.com
If I can ever help in anyway, hit me with a PM on the forum or email me: joe.sanborn@music-group.com

If any of you guys are making it to the NAMM show next week, please stop by and say "HI".
We are really expanding the X32 line with some truly innovative solutions

Best,
Joe Sanborn

Now, his job is to sell the x32 but setting up a specific service centre sounds like a step in the right direction. Hope this helps.
 
I have heard for years and years on this very BBS that behringer is total crap and to stay away from it. My only experience with behringer is a crossover that malfunctioned a fried a nice set of horns in my main speakers several years ago. While a realize that most all companies have some jewels and some dogs behringer has really been bashed over and over again. So, I guess what I'm getting at is no matter how good the features are...reliability plays a key role. That being said ...I know nothing about the reliability of either board.

There has been a lot of group-think going on about Behringer, and Behri-bashing has been a common and popular past-time. That's not to say that Behri is not without flaws. But then again, there are few brands that are without flaws . . . they just don't attract the same amount of condemnation.

Having said that, by all accounts, Behri has turned out a gem with the X32, and may mark a turning point in people's attitudes.
 
Hey bobbsy, thanks for that info. Our church will be expanding in the not too distant future and I know that we could possibly need to take a look at power amps and speakers at that point...So, there will probably be other consideration in the audio budget besides a new board. I don't see anything out there offering what the x32 does for anywhere near the price. It would be a no brainier from the get go if the quality build and repair service weren't in question (for me anyway)
This thread and moresounds thread has done a lot to address my concerns in that area.
 
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