Tubes for ART DMPA

J

jabulani jonny

New member
Hey guys,
I know several of you have swapped out tubes for this unit and I was wondering what tubes you've been settling on. I saw in an old thread where mshilarious used 12AX7S, if I remember correctly. So....any suggestions for replacement tubes? My Firestudio & Digimaxes have fairly clean pres so I'm definitely looking to accentuate the toobiness of the ART. Thx!


Also, I'm getting some nasty digital noise when I clock the DMPA to my Firestudio using WC. When I don't clock it to the FS, and just use the internal clock it's whisper quiet. It's not the FS cause I've tried the DMPA on two of 'em. Any thoughts on what's going on? Even if I just have the ART DMPA as the only connection to the FS, running SPDIF to the FS, and clocked, I get noise. Just running SPDIF into FS, no BNC connection, no noise. I'm fine with just running SPDIF, not clocked to the Firestudio, but if I can get better quality by Clocking, then I want to, but.....not with that noise in the line. Unfortunately I don't have another pre with SPDIF out that I can test with the FS. Thoughts?
 
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The unit comes with 12AX7s, but it's a matter of brand. I ended up with NOS GE 12AT7s I recall.

You are unlikely to improve the DMPA's converter via external clock. Generally, a converter will run best off its own clock. If you use the SPDIF out, you have to clock the FS to SPDIF, and set the ART to the sample rate you want. If you connect wordclock from the FS to the ART via BNC (again, I wouldn't necessarily do that), you have to select internal clock on the FS, and set the ART to WCLK.
 
mshilarious said:
The unit comes with 12AX7s, but it's a matter of brand. I ended up with NOS GE 12AT7s I recall.

You are unlikely to improve the DMPA's converter via external clock. Generally, a converter will run best off its own clock. If you use the SPDIF out, you have to clock the FS to SPDIF, and set the ART to the sample rate you want. If you connect wordclock from the FS to the ART via BNC (again, I wouldn't necessarily do that), you have to select internal clock on the FS, and set the ART to WCLK.
Click to expand...

I did set the FS as the Master and slaved the DMPA to the external clock. I wanted to do this because the FS's clocking has been touted and is supposedly much improved from the Firepod so I would prefer to have that as the master. I have the Firestudio and two Digimax FS's connected via ADAT. Also, the DMPA doesn't have the capability to be set as a master clock, it has a BNC Thru output, but not a BNC out where you can slave other units to it. So it's either set it as slave or connect the two via SPDIF and have the DMPA running on its own clock and the FS as the Master for the two Digimaxes. Does that make sense?
 
jabulani jonny said:
I did set the FS as the Master and slaved the DMPA to the external clock. I wanted to do this because the FS's clocking has been touted and is supposedly much improved from the Firepod so I would prefer to have that as the master. I have the Firestudio and two Digimax FS's connected via ADAT.
Click to expand...

If you need to sync up a bunch of gear, that is a good reason to use a clock. But don't believe marketing hype about improved clocking and external clocking of A/D converters. Instead, read this:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/14324/0/

So it's either set it as slave or connect the two via SPDIF and have the DMPA running on its own clock and the FS as the Master for the two Digimaxes. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

Well in that case, the FS would still be slave and just pass the ART clock to the Digimaxes. However, unless you are recording with the ART and the Digimaxes at the same time, I would switch clock source to the preamp you are using to track.
 
Well in that case, the FS would still be slave and just pass the ART clock to the Digimaxes. However, unless you are recording with the ART and the Digimaxes at the same time, I would switch clock source to the preamp you are using to track.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I don't think the FS can clock to the DMPA since the DMPA doesn't export or send it's clocking via BNC or SPDIF. The purpose of getting the ART was to hopefully add two more channels for live recording and to have a different flavor pre already hooked up and ready to go without diggin around back to run/rerun line outs to the Firestudio. With the FS and the Digimaxes I get 24 tracks, the DMPA adds another two via SPDIF in case I need them. However, in all actuality, I haven't needed the DMPA inputs simultaneously with the other 24. I typically run between 20 and 24 inputs in use so I haven't needed to run the DMPA and the Digimaxes at the same time. I guess another thing I could try is to take the line outs of the DMPA and run them to two unused inputs on one of the Digimaxes, completely bypassing the pres on the Digimax for those two channels and not worry about using the SPDIF out of the DMPA. I'm just looking for the setup that I can just about set & forget as far as cabling is concerned, but the one that gives the functionality of being able to use the units without clocking issues, ie. clicks or pops. Make sense?
 
jabulani jonny said:
Hmmmm, I don't think the FS can clock to the DMPA since the DMPA doesn't export or send it's clocking via BNC or SPDIF.
Click to expand...

SPDIF carries a clock signal.

I guess another thing I could try is to take the line outs of the DMPA and run them to two unused inputs on one of the Digimaxes, completely bypassing the pres on the Digimax for those two channels and not worry about using the SPDIF out of the DMPA. I'm just looking for the setup that I can just about set & forget as far as cabling is concerned, but the one that gives the functionality of being able to use the units without clocking issues, ie. clicks or pops. Make sense?
Click to expand...

Sure, that is a good reason to use a single clock source. In that case, slave everything to the FS if you like, and get on with it. However I wouldn't run the DMPA into the Digimaxes, the DMPA is likely to have a better converter.

I just ran a quick test of my DMPA on internal clock versus external clock via ADAT (can't find my BNC cables at the moment, kind of under construction here) from an RME ADI-8 DS, I could detect no difference in converter performance between the two options. So I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it.
 
SPDIF carries a clock signal.
Click to expand...

Ooooohhh yeeeeaaaaahhh. Son of a..... Ok. So I set the DMPA as the master and the FS as the slave via SPDIF, passing the clock to the two Digimaxes via BNC. Bingo, everything synced, no noise. Life is good.

Now I gotta go find some tubes. Thanks MS. Absolutely love your mics BTW. I have a set of the Omni's. I'm sure I'll be picking up more before too long. Great job on those. They make fairly inconspicuous room mics for live recording, which is primarily what I do.

Thanks again!!
 
OK so I haven't bought the tubes yet. Whilst shopping I see folks put what the tube tested at.... like 1,3mA or something like that. I was looking at the Telefunken ECC83's and the ratings were all over the place. What should I be looking for when they test the tube?
 
I have a DMPA coming -- the fedex website says it's in town and on the way to my house right now :). Thanks for the discussion - I'll be hooking it up to a MOTU traveler, and the dialog above will likely save me some pain. I'll run out to the garage and get one of the ARCNet BNC cables I've been saving for 20 years -- I *knew* I'd be a little glad someday.

I've been thinking about the tubes, too - I've got a bunch of 12AX7 type tubes lying around here, but they were pretty much all selected for guitar amps. With the amps, I usually want them to overdrive and distort, but with the DMPA, I don't. GE NOS sounds like a good way to go. I've got some GE, but I think they're used, and some are close to used up.

Does anyone know of a new manufacturer who's producing tubes that don't distort easily? I'd think these would be desirable for the tube-based home stereo systems as well.
 
Anti,
I have discovered this site www.audiotubes.com, which is a wealth of information, has a ton of frickin' tubes at good prices. Check it out. I'm getting ready to order some from him rather than on Ebay. Seems like the Sylvania, GE, RCA or Groove Tubes are good budget choices.
 
Heh, I got lower noise with JJ 12AX7s - I'll try more later - maybe even wet toilet paper tubes. That input impedance knob sure has a much bigger effect on sound than the tubes - wow. I have to relearn all the dynamic mics.
 
Best brands (sound wise) IMO would be Mullard and Tung-sol, but watch out for the Chinese fakes, there's too many out there...
 
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