Is a TRS Balanced cable the same as 1/4" stereo cable?

J

JoeW

New member
Hope I can get a quick, definitive answer on this...

Is a TRS balanced cable the same as a 1/4" stereo cable that you can buy at Radio Shack? When I asked the people in the local Radio Shack, and in our local music store, that I wanted a TRS balanced cable, they looked at me blankly.

I'm going from a Focusrite VM into a Edirol UA_25 D/A.

Thanks, and regards,
Joe
 
Yes, a 1/4 inch balanced TRS cable is the same thing as a 1/4 inch stereo cable. Radio Shack used to have people who knew what they were doing (they used to sell electronics as well) now, sadly, they do not.
 
I'm not entirely sure they could be called the same. True, the electrical paths will be equivalent, but the physical cables would problably be different. For example, the TRS balanced cable should be constructed with shielded twisted pair, whereas the 1/4" stereo should be constructed with a pair of coax. Using a stereo 1/4" for a balanced connection would not yield the same amount of noise immunity intended with the balanced connection. Likewise, using a TRS balanced cable for a unbalanced stereo hookup would have greater crosstalk than when using the correct cable.

True, it will work, but it won't be as good as it should.
 
House de Kris said:
I'm not entirely sure they could be called the same. True, the electrical paths will be equivalent, but the physical cables would problably be different. For example, the TRS balanced cable should be constructed with shielded twisted pair, whereas the 1/4" stereo should be constructed with a pair of coax. Using a stereo 1/4" for a balanced connection would not yield the same amount of noise immunity intended with the balanced connection. Likewise, using a TRS balanced cable for a unbalanced stereo hookup would have greater crosstalk than when using the correct cable.

True, it will work, but it won't be as good as it should.
Click to expand...
The problem is, the people at Radio Shack use the terms TRS and stereo interchangeabley. R/S is not the place to get this sort of thing, but I have an old stereo 1/4 inch cable from radio shack that I just took apart and it has twisted pair, so he should be pretty safe.
 
House de Kris said:
I'm not entirely sure they could be called the same. True, the electrical paths will be equivalent, but the physical cables would problably be different. For example, the TRS balanced cable should be constructed with shielded twisted pair, whereas the 1/4" stereo should be constructed with a pair of coax. Using a stereo 1/4" for a balanced connection would not yield the same amount of noise immunity intended with the balanced connection. Likewise, using a TRS balanced cable for a unbalanced stereo hookup would have greater crosstalk than when using the correct cable.

True, it will work, but it won't be as good as it should.
Click to expand...


VERY enlightening and extremely useful information. Thank you!

I've been having trouble settting up the chain and getting a clean signal on some new equipment and perhaps this may be a good time for me to expand on how I came to the original thread subject...

I have a CAD M9 > Focusrite VM Pro > Edirol UM-25 > Hard drive chain. Pretty simple, yes?

The cabling from the Cad into the VM pro is a balanced XLR, and from VM Pro to Edirol is balanced XLR also.

Doing straight voice/narration I would expect a nice clean sound (using no compression or other processing offered by the pre.) Instead, what I've been getting is a very noticable background "hiss" - sounds almost like tape hiss. This is in a small 7X10' sound-proofed room...no external noise coming in to explain this "hiss" sound.

If I bypass the pre and take the mic directly to the Edirol A/D via balanced XLR, "voila", I get a very clean, nice signal with none of the hiss.

The sales guy where I bought the equipment suggested that there was some impedence mismatch in using an XLR from the mic to the pre and then from the pre to the A/D, and suggested I try using the balanced TRS patch cable instead. Since I'm 40 miles from the nearest decent audio equipment store, Radio Shack was my only quick solution - hence my question about using a standard 1/4" stereo cable.

I tried the cable, and it improved the signal somewhat, but there was still some noticable hiss. I could reduce this considerably using the pre processing, but I also noticed I lost quite a bit of volume and had to turn up the gain on the pre to compensate.

I was begining to think the Voicemaster Pro was defective, until your comment which makes me think it is still the cable from the pre to the A/D.

Does any of this make sense?

I certainly would greatly appreciate your thoughts about this!

Regards,
Joe
 
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with any of this gear. But I do have a couple questions. It sounds like the Edirol A/D has plenty enough gain to put a mic directly into it. True? And, with just that it sounds good. When you put the mic pre in line with the A/D, noise becomes a problem. Did I read that right? When you put the mic pre in line, do you reduce the gain of the Edirol somehow? Like a mic/line switch or a gain trim? Specifically not the input level slider? I guess what I'm getting at is, how have you compensated for the extra gain of the Focusrite?

Another thought is, do you still get hiss in the setup even with the Focusrite's input muted somehow (hopefully it has the capability to do that), or with its (the Focusrite) level all the way down?

What I'm getting at is it may not be the cables, but rather the gain structure of your setup. Does the hiss amount or quality change in anyway if you move the cable around? Physically move it's location with respect to other gear. If the hiss sounds the same no matter where the cable is, I would be less inclined to indict the cable, at least from a noise pickup perspective.

Hope this helps.
 
Yes: the Edirol A/D has a line-in record level (Just a knob that goes turns about 260 degrees, with full left being none and full right being full.) With the pre going into the Edirol, I've had the line in at about 20%, and the gain on the Focusrite at 0db. Maybe I should turn the A/D line in to zero and up the gain on the pre? Honestly, I've messed with it so much I can't remember if I've already tried this, but I'll give it another go.

At the previous setting, I get plenty of volume, and any more will result in clipping in Adobe Audition (which is set at about -6db).

The Focusrite has both input gain control and output fader to the A/D. I've messed with these, turning one, or the other, or both down, but always have the hiss in the background - albeit, quieter.

Either I'm doing something wrong, missing something, or something is broke?

Thanks for your input...really appreciate all the help I can get!
 
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