Tampa & DMP3 ok for Ribbon mics or get ART MPA GOLD?

dickiefunk

dickiefunk

New member
Hi. I'm looking to expand my mic collection with a ribbon mic - Cascade Fathead, and dynamic mic - Shure and possibly another LDC.
Will the Tampa and DMP3 have enough gain for a ribbon mic or should I sell the Tampa and get an ART MPA Gold which has more gain? I will be using the pre and mics for vocals. The Tampa and DMP3 are decent pres so I wouldn't want to downgrade quality.
I'm suspecting that the ART MPA will be pretty similar but with more gain?
 
Im curious about this myself, as i plan on getting the DMP3, and would also like an apex/nady ribbon.
 
I have had both the DMP-3 and the MPA Gold.
It is my opinion that the Gold is quite a bit noisier at the upper range of the volume than the DMP-3.

I use a ribbon with my DMP-3 all the time with fine results, as long as you are recording a relatively loud source. (no soft singing)
The softest thing I have recorded (ribbon wise) was a banjo that worked well.
Guitar amps, drums... no problem.

Tom
 
Thanks for the replies! The DMP3 is a decent clean quiet pre and I thought it would be fine with a ribbon mic. I'm also confident that the Tampa will be more than adequate! It also has different impedances -2400,1200,600 and 300. I'm not quite sure what these do or how they affect the signal? Do they affect the gain?
 
All preamps, all circuitry period, generates some degree of noise. The higher the gain in the circuit, the more that noise is amplified. All, or at least most preamps, are capable of much higher gain than what they're limited to by design, but the decision is made to limit the gain to an amount that produces acceptable noise. The extra 7dB of gain that the MPA gold provides is getting into the grey area of "is it usable gain?". The engineers/marketing folks at M-Audio decided to limit the DMP3's gain to 66dB, on the basis that they would rather have an honest noise spec and a product known for being dead quiet. Ditto for the Tampa.
It is telling that M-Audio puts (gain set to maximum) after their noise specs, and ART does not.

The impedance selector on the Tampa doesn't have a very noticable affect on gain.... maybe it's measurable. What I hear with it is a subtle tonal difference, and a slight softening or crispening of transients. Theoretically, I would set it for 300 or 600 ohms for my tube NTK, and probably 2400 ohms for my fet mics. In practice, I keep that loosly in mind, but I dial in the sound I want, which may be the "wrong" setting for the mic type. I really like this feature as it becomes more of a "charachter" knob.
 
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Actually I believe the DMP3 is limited to 66db gain because that is all the INA163 IC can produce.....Actually they probably have the INA163 at 60db gain but the Ballanced line driver adds 6db of gain........
 
Minion said:
Actually I believe the DMP3 is limited to 66db gain because that is all the INA163 IC can produce.....Actually they probably have the INA163 at 60db gain but the Ballanced line driver adds 6db of gain........
Click to expand...

A single stage of INA163 can produce 80dB of gain. ;)
 
Yes you can get 80db if you set the max gain resistor (R6 in Preamp datasheet) to about 1 or 2 ohms but have you actually tried configureing the ina163 at 80db of gain and useing it?? Well I can tell you that with the Max gain set resistor set to anything under 3 ohms and running off of a dual 15v supply the Chip becomes unstable and oscilates (with gain pot also at 0r), it can be remidied somewhat by increaseing the Voltage to 18v but a gain of this high with these chips causes a Unacceptable DC Offset (several Volts at the output) which can only be remidied with e DC servo or an output cap, Pluss the noise performance is severely degraded with more than 60db of gain......

I actually use these types of chips (INA163,INA217,THAT 1510) for most all of my DIY preamps and find then very easy to use and they sound great but I have had a Lot of stability issues when trying to get the max gain out of the chips......

have you guys overcome this problem??
 
Minion said:
Yes you can get 80db if you set the max gain resistor (R6 in Preamp datasheet) to about 1 or 2 ohms but have you actually tried configureing the ina163 at 80db of gain and useing it?? Well I can tell you that with the Max gain set resistor set to anything under 3 ohms and running off of a dual 15v supply the Chip becomes unstable and oscilates (with gain pot also at 0r), it can be remidied somewhat by increaseing the Voltage to 18v but a gain of this high with these chips causes a Unacceptable DC Offset (several Volts at the output) which can only be remidied with e DC servo or an output cap, Pluss the noise performance is severely degraded with more than 60db of gain......

I actually use these types of chips (INA163,INA217,THAT 1510) for most all of my DIY preamps and find then very easy to use and they sound great but I have had a Lot of stability issues when trying to get the max gain out of the chips......

have you guys overcome this problem??
Click to expand...

No, but you illistrated my point, which was that M-Audio designed conservatively to keep the device in the sweet spot. I wonder what they did with the Grace 101 high gain version. That would be an interesting schematic to look at.
 
Minion said:
I actually use these types of chips (INA163,INA217,THAT 1510) for most all of my DIY preamps and find then very easy to use and they sound great but I have had a Lot of stability issues when trying to get the max gain out of the chips......

have you guys overcome this problem??
Click to expand...

Yes.

I don't turn mine up as high.

:D HA HA HA ! I KILL MYSELF! ! :D

But seriously ... aren't most of these things followed by a dual, like a 5532 or preferably something better (?).

.
 
chessrock said:
Yes.

I don't turn mine up as high.

:D HA HA HA ! I KILL MYSELF! ! :D

But seriously ... aren't most of these things followed by a dual, like a 5532 or preferably something better (?).

.
Click to expand...

if the preamp outputs are ballanced then yes they are usually followed by a dual opamp configured as a Line driver or they more commonly use a Line driver chip like the DRV134......I suppose with the INA163/INA217 configured with 66db of gain with a ballanced Line driver at the output it would give you 72db of gain , i usually configure mine with 60db of gain pluss the Line driver with ups it to 66db which is more gain than I would ever need......


:D
 
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