I've been recording at home for years, starting out on a little Tascam 6 track Portastudio. The purpose has always been to create scratch tracks of songs I have written to bring to the band in order to rehearse for recording and live performance. I have always recorded albums in a professional studio because I believed that there is no way to achieve a professional sound at home. The times they are a changing. Now I think with the right performance, room and equipment you can make an album at home that sounds professional. Here's what I want to do. I want to create a click track, guitar parts, bass parts and vocals, then take those parts into a professional studio to finish it all off. I have an AKG 415B, a Lauten Atlantis and too many lesser condenser and dynamic mics in my mic locker. I have a Grace 101, a True Systems P-Solo, a GAP pre73 and a FMR RNP, preamps. I also have an acoustically treated room. I use a Digidesign 003 rack+ going into a Mac Pro running Pro Tools. I think the room the mics and the preamps will do the trick. The 003 leaves something to be desired. I never use the preamps. I just go straight into the line inputs with my collection of preamps. My idea is to get something with better ADA conversion. If it has some quality preamps all the better. I have been looking at the UAD Apollo and the Apogee Ensemble. I can get an Ensemble for about $1500.00 right now. I already have a UAD 1 card in the Mac. Only problem is that the UAD 1 card only runs at 32 bits so I am not able to utilize the Macs 64 bit architecture. Ultimately I would like the capability to record at least 12 tracks at one time. Anyone's suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Taking it to the next level
- Thread starter upricon
- Start date
dainbramage
New member
I think it is fair to say that noone will notice better AD/DA conversion unless they bring along measurement tools. The difference is very, very subtle and it is a lot of money spent for very little upgrades.
Steenamaroo
...
I'd agree with dainbramage.
Obviously there's a difference or better units wouldn't exist, but it's probably fair to say if you run into problems you won't be shaking your fists at the converters.
The only thing you don't mention is your monitoring chain. I presume there's something good going on there 'cos you seem pretty well kitted out but don't forget monitoring is arguably the most important element.
If running stuff at 32 bit is your main worry, relax and then get to work.
Ok, there's no point limiting your mac if you can avoid it, but 12 tracks should be a walk in the park for any mac pro.
It should be pretty much idling.
I do 20-30 with heavy effects regularly on a macbook pro i5.
Well,
I've been looking around since I posted this and I have learned a few things. I understand more what it takes to get the best recording you can out of a home studio. Here's my list in order of importance.
1) A well written song
2) A great performance
3) A good room
4) A good mic
5) A good preamp
6) A good ADA converter and word clock
6) A basic understanding of recording engineering
Looks like my next step should be treating my room.
I've been looking around since I posted this and I have learned a few things. I understand more what it takes to get the best recording you can out of a home studio. Here's my list in order of importance.
1) A well written song
2) A great performance
3) A good room
4) A good mic
5) A good preamp
6) A good ADA converter and word clock
6) A basic understanding of recording engineering
Looks like my next step should be treating my room.
I actually wanted to say "6 should come before 4", but then I realised there are two 6'es in the list
Anyway, I think "A basic understanding of recording engineering" is more important than a good mic.
It's no point having the best Neumann or Royer if your levels are clipping all over, or if you don't know where to place the mic. A cheap but well-positioned mic in the hands of a good engineer is usually better than the best mic in the hands of the ignorant.
CoolCat
Well-known member
This is what I read too, most of the time in shootouts of converters, no one can tell a difference.
upricorn/op
Here's what I want to do. I want to create a click track, guitar parts, bass parts and vocals, then take those parts into a professional studio to finish it all off.
I have an AKG 415B, a Lauten Atlantis and too many lesser condenser and dynamic mics in my mic locker. I have a Grace 101, a True Systems P-Solo, a GAP pre73 and a FMR RNP, preamps. I also have an acoustically treated room. I use a Digidesign 003 rack+ going into a Mac Pro running Pro Tools. I think the room the mics and the preamps will do the trick. The 003 leaves something to be desired. I never use the preamps. I just go straight into the line inputs with my collection of preamps. My idea is to get something with better ADA conversion. If it has some quality preamps all the better. I have been looking at the UAD Apollo and the Apogee Ensemble. I can get an Ensemble for about $1500.00 right now. I already have a UAD 1 card in the Mac. Only problem is that the UAD 1 card only runs at 32 bits so I am not able to utilize the Macs 64 bit architecture. Ultimately I would like the capability to record at least 12 tracks at one time. Anyone's suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
The UAD Apollo and Apogee is one of those Ive never heard anything bad about. Sounds like you have really good pre-amps and a Digi003 should allow recording to 24bit....you don't like the preamps but you have a bunch of preamps so that's a non-issue.
Not sure if your recording will go up a level from the gear.
Recording 12 tracks at a time sounds like a better reason for the Apollo... with the UAD issue fixed too.
Not sure what the "Thunderbolt" thing is all about though? Does this mean you'll need a new pc too?
cavedog101
Well-known member
Architecture and bits....Theres a lot of talk on various forums and sites about these things but very little reference to "how does it sound". Many many many enthusiasts think that changing this little thing here or that little thing there is going to change their sound by a lot. While I agree somewhat with the OP's take on the converters in the 003 family (I have an 003 factory and also dont use its pres...or its converters), the LARGEST change I have been able to make in my system is with the preamps.
I'm talking audible differences right from the start.
A great mic locker is essential, but really they are going to capture what they capture no matter what amplification device you use. Your mic will pick up exactly what its designed to pick up but the TRANSLATION of these sounds will make the largest difference to the naked ear.
Of course the conversion will make some difference but this is such a subjective thing that most cannot tell which converter is which in ANY blind test....unless you are talking conversion the multi-thousand dollar range. At a certain point the engineering WILL make a huge difference. You CAN audibly hear the difference in ,say, a Burl converter as opposed to an 003. But , again, the DIFFERENCE is a subtle change in clarity and depth as opposed to outright 'better'.
The preamp's quality will allow your mics' beauty to shine through. While the OP has 'decent' mic pres and certainly enough quality to get the job done given a high level of recording technique expertise, the change to a better converter set might no be as exciting as you might expect.
I have some high-end mic pres and use the converters through my Alesis HD24. Pretty much the 003 is simply a fader package since I'm old and still like the tactile feel of the faders for mixing. The conversion in the HD24 isnt all that big of a heavily spec'd system, but it is very MUSICAL. while it may not spec as well as the conversion in the 003 (it doesnt) it simply sounds better. Smoother and more and tighter bass response. Sort of what you'll get with the addition of the Apollo.
If you look at the specs of ten of the most popular converters you'll find they are all almost the same. But some sound better.
However, to make a huge difference, try a high-end preamp. The Grace and the True are wonderful clear and clean pres so you're halfway there.
I'm talking audible differences right from the start.
A great mic locker is essential, but really they are going to capture what they capture no matter what amplification device you use. Your mic will pick up exactly what its designed to pick up but the TRANSLATION of these sounds will make the largest difference to the naked ear.
Of course the conversion will make some difference but this is such a subjective thing that most cannot tell which converter is which in ANY blind test....unless you are talking conversion the multi-thousand dollar range. At a certain point the engineering WILL make a huge difference. You CAN audibly hear the difference in ,say, a Burl converter as opposed to an 003. But , again, the DIFFERENCE is a subtle change in clarity and depth as opposed to outright 'better'.
The preamp's quality will allow your mics' beauty to shine through. While the OP has 'decent' mic pres and certainly enough quality to get the job done given a high level of recording technique expertise, the change to a better converter set might no be as exciting as you might expect.
I have some high-end mic pres and use the converters through my Alesis HD24. Pretty much the 003 is simply a fader package since I'm old and still like the tactile feel of the faders for mixing. The conversion in the HD24 isnt all that big of a heavily spec'd system, but it is very MUSICAL. while it may not spec as well as the conversion in the 003 (it doesnt) it simply sounds better. Smoother and more and tighter bass response. Sort of what you'll get with the addition of the Apollo.
If you look at the specs of ten of the most popular converters you'll find they are all almost the same. But some sound better.
However, to make a huge difference, try a high-end preamp. The Grace and the True are wonderful clear and clean pres so you're halfway there.