Setting up external converters?

S

Sonic Idiot

New member
Hi all,

I've poked around a few sites and can't find a satisfactory answer to the sort of question only one with a unique and profound ignorance such as myself can muster.

I currently record with and Echo Layla 3G, Seventh Circle pres, and a few really nice mics. In the steady gear-march forward, I'm thinking about upgrading to high end converters.

So, here come the dumb questions:

How do you use an external converter? I know the chain would be Mic, Pre, Converter, spdif or lightpipe to Echo. But does the Echo just become a conduit for the converter? Is an external clock required? I'll start there.
 
A typical setup would be a stand alone converter sending eight chanels a/d and/or d/a through light pipe to the card with the clocking done at the converter. The sound card and recording app slave to the converter. That puts the clock closest and tightest at the converter. The Layla presumably can clock to the ADAT ports.
 
Thanks, Mixsit. What do you mean by the clock being "closest and tightest"?

Also, what if, with the 8 input Echo, I want to only shell out for a 2 channel a/d - d/a (like Rosetta 200) because I don't record more than two tracks at a time?

For reference, the Echo has spdif, optical, and word clock in/outs.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
.. What do you mean by the clock being "closest and tightest"?

Also, what if, with the 8 input Echo, I want to only shell out for a 2 channel a/d - d/a (like Rosetta 200) because I don't record more than two tracks at a time? ..
Click to expand...
Clock quality is most important at the conversion stages, and the idea is that a converter's internal clock is a step closer. Especially with a nice one like that, running off the word clock -Laya master could a step back. If you were to ever use both (record with all ten inputs, both converters) one will have to be slave.
Any way, I'm just passing on what I've picked up along the way. Try it both ways. ;) Here's something from a quickie search on jitter' to get rolling.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=224300&highlight=jitter
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Also, what if, with the 8 input Echo, I want to only shell out for a 2 channel a/d - d/a (like Rosetta 200) because I don't record more than two tracks at a time?

For reference, the Echo has spdif, optical, and word clock in/outs.
Click to expand...

If you're only doing two channels at a time and you're sure you won't need more, then that'd be fine. If you buy a nice converter though then I'd think you'd want to clock using the converter...so you'd come out of the line outputs on the 3G, into the converter, then ADAT, SPDIF or whatever to the DAW. Just by way of example, I come out of a 32-channel console via the direct outs to an SSL Xlogic MADI AX, then to the DAW and back via ADAT. Works like a charm.

Frank
 
Actually, you would run your preamp into the converter and from the converter you would go digitally through s/pdif or whatever digital configuration your Layla uses to the layla digital inputs and not from the Layla line outs. You will set your Layla to slave its clock form the 2 channel converter either through the digital cable you are already using or through a dedicated wordclock input on the Layla. You will probably also want to use the digital outs on the layla to feed the converter for your monitoring and take advantage of the presumably better outboard converter you will be using.
 
Sorry...I was assuming that the 3G was his preamp. If there's no outboard pre then he'd have to go straight into the new converters from the line outs to bypass the 3G's converters...then the new converters would also clock the audio. That's what I was thinking anyhow.

Frank
 
Xstatic is correct.
This is how I do it with a stereo Lucid feeding my Delta 1010s.
Since I have multiple 1010s I already have a Masterclock running wordclock to 4 different units, but if you are only using a single stereo unit with your Layla I would start by syncing the 2 via the spidf and see if you are satisfied with the sound.
You can try making the 2 channel the master or try the Layla as master, see if there is any noticeable difference in sound quality.
 
Weasel, it seems that you wre correct as well. I had not thought of the possibility of the preamp being onboard the Layla. I don't recall if it has preamps or not. If it does, I would confirm through the manufacturer that the line out on the layla can be sent from the preamp stage and has not undergone any conversion through the Layla before outputting the signal. This seems pretty basic, but with the way companies are shoving new units out the door these days, I would not be at all surprised to find out that all of the routing is done after an initial A/D. If this is the case, when using the Layla's preamps you would actually be better off to not use an outboard converter since that would mean A/D at Layala, D/A at Layla, and then A/D at outboard. By the way, how are you liking your SSL converters? So far I have really liked mine:)
 
I never use the pres on the Layla - they don't sound like complete dookie, but the SCA pres sound twice as big to me. Either way, I kind of wish Echo didn't even bother and either put the money into circuitry or just cut the price. So, for my case, and I like to think about myself only! - the Layla pres are not part of the equation.

SSL Converters, you say? Do tell. I'm in the market and now have the task of finding the right gear for me. Do they make a 2 or 4 channel model? That's another gripe of mine. For all the bizillion small home studios out there these days, why isn't anyone making four channel converters? I bet thousands of people are like me: I could work with two, but would gladly put four to good use, and eight is more than I'll probably ever require. It's a big price point gap.
 
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