RNP or 8 channel pre with AD/DA or ?

nuemes

nuemes

Be Here Now
So I’m at a minor fork in the road and am not sure which way to turn on this. Looking for experienced recordists who’ve used at least one of the following to jump in on this - or you at least need to be able to tell the difference between the sound of a RNP & a DMP3 for example – you’re in the minority on this site if so :)

I’ve got the following:
Digi 002
UA M610
Avalon M5
Behringer AD8000 (8 channel pre / ADAT input) – only use rarely when desperate for additional mic inputs
Mackie 1202VLZ (4 pres)
Soundcraft Spirit M8 Mixer (8 pres)

Here’s the deal: for recording drums (typically 70’s rock) I mic the kick, snare, have 2 OH’s in XY, mic each of 3 toms and mic the hihat. I use the Avalon on kick & UA preamp on snare (both mono). I’ve been using the Digi, Mackie & Soundcraft pres for overheads and am thinking that a better two channel preamp would be a good choice at this point to improve sound. I’d also use it on occasion for stereo acoustic guitar, a DI on occasion, etc. The RNP is $475, suits my budget and needs perfectly.

Then I read a review in TapeOp that praised the Presonus DigiMax FS ($600), stating that its pres were excellent for its price range (which the RNP is said to be as well) and that, according to the reviewer, the AD/DA converters on the DigiMax FS are *better* than his current ProTools HD converters.

So my thinking is for an extra $125 I get 6 more pres on par with the RNP (maybe) from the DigiMax FS *and* a better AD/DA than I currently have (maybe). Which sounds like it’s too good to be true…

Now, I have never heard the difference between any converters, ever. And I have no clue how good or bad the Digi 002 converters are. And I have no clue as to whether the DigiMax FS pre’s are on par with the RNP.

The answer lies in the quality of the two pieces of gear. Outside of renting both there’s no way for me to know.

This is where you guys come in. My budget is $600. Which do you choose or do you do you recommend otherwise? TapeOp also said that the Focusrite OCTOPRE LE has pres on par with Sytek for example. Remember that the main goal is to get 2 high quality channels for under $600 total and to sneak in the most bang-for-buck if possible. Deadline to decide is Thursday, Nov 1st as have a band coming in the next day.

Looking only for folks who’ve worked with multiple pre’s and converters to respond. Thanks.
 
I have heard some bad reveiws one presonus pre's not because of actual sound quality but poor build. I've read where a repair guy gets those presonus 8 channel units quite often.

I think the rnp is your best bet. I think it would be a better over all product as far a tonal quality's and build. Though it does require a wall wart and maybe a rack tray if your like me.

I own some focusrite platnum stuff too. I am not impressed what so ever with them. You can get the job done, sure. But there's no color what so ever. It's a pretty transparent mic pre. Clear and clean.

I'm not saying you couldn't get the job done with any of these. On overheads I don't think it will matter that much sonically. I think the mics you use will determine your sound more.

two cents
 
What you have is fine.

Why don't you save your money until you can make an actual upgrade?

The Presonus is just more stuff ... not really any better / worse than what you've got.

.
 
chessrock said:
What you have is fine.

Why don't you save your money until you can make an actual upgrade?

The Presonus is just more stuff ... not really any better / worse than what you've got.

.
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Chessrock, what happened to your rep? 0?
 
chessrock said:
What you have is fine.

Why don't you save your money until you can make an actual upgrade?

The Presonus is just more stuff ... not really any better / worse than what you've got.

.
Click to expand...

I agree with chessrock, save your money so you can get something above what you already have.
 
Neeps said:
You're making yourself sound like an eejit.
Click to expand...

In your post the DMP3 got the most votes (so far). The RNP sample was clearly better to my ears. I want advice from people with good ears.
 
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I record drums on a regular basis. I have a room and studio that has really been adapted for that purpose. Most of the pres I use now are on the ghost console at the studio. I have several high end pres that don't get all that much use with drums. I have the RNP and have used it for drums. It is pretty good. I Also had a digimax. It was O.K but for what I do with drums the RNP is a better choice. The digimax converters, in my opinion are not great. They are good, useable, fine for guitars for example but not great with transients like drums. I didn't really notice until I could afford to buy better ones. I have used lucid converters and now the alesis hdxr clocked from an RME card and that is far and away better..

Mics are more important in my opinion. Mic placement is also more important. Room sound is also more important. Image, full sound and phase are difficult to get right if you don't have the room and mic combo dialed in and no pres will help with that. I think most guys try to use too many mics with drums and it can be a problem for them. You should be able to do pretty well with two overheads, kik and snare. When you can get that to sound good then you're on the right track. Then start adding carefully.

If I had to choose one over the other the rnp would be my choice but not until I could get good sound with the room and equipment I had.

I realize thaat's a long rant but maybe it will be helpful.
 
edyer said:
If I had to choose one over the other the rnp would be my choice but not until I could get good sound with the room and equipment I had.
I'm with you on this. The room is treated (dead) as much as possible at this time. I used to mic only with OH's, kick & snare, got pretty good at mic placement and have now gotten into adding the hihat & toms.

The MXL603's are definately a week point at the moment; I'm thinking the RNP would help clean them up a bit (as well as be useable for other instruments).
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Click to expand...
 
If you are happy with the room then you should be looking at mics in my opinion. The pres you have are all capable of producing good drum sounds. I had a mackie 32/8 and got great drums with it. I think the mxl mics will hold you back regardless of what else you do. The rnp will only be as good as the mic.
If you have $600 to spend I would start scouring craigslist and ebay for a good deal on a quality pair of mics. Josephsons, earthworks, stapes/avenson,etc. some of the groovetubes mics are pretty good for the money. The gt 55 is good. I had the 66s but sold them to help pay for a pair of akg 414s. I miss those mics they were cool. I have never had really good luck with ribbons. I had a pair of aea r84s which were just wild but too full. so I sold one. I had a pair of U195s. Great mics not the best with my room but still awesome .I just got a pair of the cascade ribbons to try. I 'll let you know if they work.

Anyway my point is that for percussion you really want higher quality mics to get to the next level. Other wise you may be just spinning your wheels.
 
How do you like the C414 as OH? I've got a C414ULS now; maybe the best bet is to find another used and loose the MXL's.
 
I like the 414s a lot. I go between them and the /earthworks sr77s all the time. The ability to adjust patterns is cool plus they are pretty accurate. I used them on the last set of songs I recorded. It doesn't take much the get the tracks to work with the songs.

I tried the cascades today and man are they full and a little dark. They take up a lot of room in a mix. I might try them as room mics. They would probably work well with a trio also.
 
I have used the RNP on overheads dozens of times. To my ears, it has a slight emphasis in the midrange that sounds retro-ish. I like it on vocals okay, but in layering many tracks the midrange emphasis becomes more pronounced - not in a bad way, it just has it's own thing going on.

I purchased a DAV BG-1 and the difference between it and the RNP is not as striking to my ears as some maintain. Then again, the difference between most pres is very slight and something that may take a long time to develop a qualitative opinion about. Anyway, the DAV is a "bigger" sounding pre. Cymbals sound a little more "realistic" to me.

I still use the RNP for vocals quite a bit. If the DAV were stolen, I would replace it - if I didn't save up for something a little nicer like a Buzz Audio SSA 1.1: http://www.atlasproaudio.com/buzz.html


YMMV.
 
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