preamp comparison

Peetr3

New member
Ok so from what I have been told the mic preamp is possibly the most important piece of rack equiptment to be on my way to getting a good professional sound -- so I'm planning on buying a really good tube preamp.

Looking to spend up to 2000 what is the best preamp for the money?

Are there any vintage ones I should be on the look out for on ebay?

How do I know if its a good preamp (like what if I find a really good one for cheap how will i know its good?)

is a preamp worth 2000 dollars or am I being ripped off here? Can I get a professional sounding one for much cheaper?

Am I starting in the wrong place? I'm using protools with a laptop and Mbox and eventually upgrading to an 002 and a G5. Is a preamp is worth using with the mbox?
 
For $2,000 you can get a great two channel preamp, and I mean great.

As far as starting in the wrong place, there's only one change I would recommend: drop the word "tube" from your requirement.
 
Might want to look at the Neve portico. Its around $1500 and from the samples on The Listening Session it sounds amazing. I've been looking where to pick one up but so far no luck.

On another not the other great $2000 pair that sounds great and fairly similar, the Great River, is now available at Sweetwater! (not that I would ever buy from there gear is so overpriced)
 
Keep saving. A vintage NEVE is around $2800 not a tube though.

If I had $2K I would be looking at a Martech or a dual channel Great River. The Portico is good too.

Why tube? Generally one colored sound, very good but limited use.
 
Peetr3, what kind of music and instruments are you recording? And what kind of sound are you wanting?

What mics are you using?
 
About Sweetwater, lets not confuse overpriced with priced properly. At least Sweetwater offers good service and knowledge. Try getting that at Guitar Center.

As far as preamps go, there are tons of options in that price range. The Portico is pretty nice, but the hype on that has definately died down, and I have seen qwuite a few up for sale recently. Great River is another solid 2 channel pre for that nevish sound. Chandler makes some excellent stuff as well. For cleaner stuff, take a look at Martech, Millenia, Buzz audio and D&R. There really are lots of options in your price range. It really depends on what you are looking for in a preamp:)
 
I've always been told by many people that tube is the way to go with every piece of musical amplification. Obviously an old Marshall JCM 800 is going to sound 100 times better than a solid state or valvestate new marshall.

I just found a Avalon m5 for 1000 dollars. Should I go for it? Or should I save for the others mentioned? Are the neve's that much better than the avalon?
 
You should go to Dot's site and listen for yourself. The listening sessions http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/home.htm

The Neve is more versatile and better for many things however every preamp is a color. If that is the color you need then its the best one regardless of the price. The Avalon may work better on some sources than a Neve.

What you should look for is a really good preamp that can operate as a gold vocal channel but also be versatile enough to use on a lot of other sources. The GR falls in this space as does the Portico however, there are better vocal boxes in your price range. It's a series of trade offs.
 
Dot said:
Peetr3, what kind of music and instruments are you recording? And what kind of sound are you wanting?

What mics are you using?

Hey Dot,

I'm looking to record a lot of big sounding crunchy guitar driven songs. Acoustic guitars, and 5 piece drum kit. Keyboard and Synth. I want that modern pop rock radio sound. Similar to Jimmy Eat World/Greenday. (if only i could figure out how greenday got their drums sounds on American Idiot).

As far as mic's go

2 sm58's
2 sm 57's
AT440 condenser
AKG C1000s condenser
 
Peetr3 said:
Hey Dot,

I'm looking to record a lot of big sounding crunchy guitar driven songs. Acoustic guitars, and 5 piece drum kit. Keyboard and Synth. I want that modern pop rock radio sound. Similar to Jimmy Eat World/Greenday. (if only i could figure out how greenday got their drums sounds on American Idiot).

As far as mic's go

2 sm58's
2 sm 57's
AT440 condenser
AKG C1000s condenser

Based on this request, I would recommend a lunch box of APIs. Dan I am sure will have a few choice units.
 
not to sound like a newb or anything, but a lunchbox of API's meaning what? Also who is Dan? haha sorry I'm probably just missing something.

Are the mic's i have good enough for what I'm going for? Or should I pick up a couple more? Also other outboard gear to compliment this sound what should I go with? (compression eq etc)?
 
I've heard great things about the Neve Portico, and not just on message boards either. A guy I know who does a lot of scoring work here in LA recommended the Portico to me recently, and he has a studio full of really high end gear. I don't see why you should spend more on a vintage Neve when a couple channels of Portico are $1,500, and according to my friend sound very close to the vintage units.

As far as the lunchbox thing, if I were to go that route I'd pick up a lunchbox and a couple Purple Audio "Biz" preamps.

http://www.purpleaudio.com/Product/biz.html

Avalon makes good products but I have never liked them better than other options. A lot of this is a matter of taste, but I personally would pass on that M5.
 
Based on this request, I would recommend a lunch box of APIs. Dan I am sure will have a few choice units.

IMO a bunch of API boxes will sound just about the same as whatever your running at the moment. there will be sonic improvement but you'd be back at where you started in no time . a dry transparent boring sound like the Mbox
you should get better monitors before shelving out on an API so you can here that subtle improvement .on the other hand a valve preamp should contrast whatever your using quite well assuming it's a decent valve pre ( Fearne etc.)
you would notice an immediate difference when you start tracking or stacking the various tracks.i'd be very scepticle about any website that promotes equipment through sound samples.the protico seems to be put through more options settings than say the GR. i'd say it's very biased . don't fall for the name hype. get something that will make a difference. good luck with your search
 
Middleman said:
Keep saving. A vintage NEVE is around $2800 not a tube though...

Why tube? Generally one colored sound, very good but limited use.
You've made an interesting point, Middleman. You seem to be a strong advocate of the Neve sound, while dismissing all tube pre's as being too "colored." The funny thing is that I've heard EXACTLY the same point being made about Neve preamps -- a really nice sound, but very colored. In fact, you can record an awesome vocal track through a Neve preamp (or one of the Neve clones out there) but if you track 48 tracks through one, you'll end up with the dreaded "Neve haze." Of course, many people are so enamoured by the "Neve sound" that they don't MIND hearing a whole mix painted with that same tonal brush. But one certainly cannot consider it "neutral" or "uncolored." Because it most definitely isn't.

And, as far as going to the Listening Sessions to "listen" to some different preamps, well. . . let me just put it this way. I certainly don't mean to minimize Dot's work in doing comparisons between all those mics and preamps. I admire the effort he's put into this project. HOWEVER, the last time I went over there (a long time ago, I'll admit), the only thing that I saw on that web site were MP3 files. Well, among the many sins of the notorious MP3 file format is that it absolutely plays hell with the frequency balance of the original track. In other words, converting a file into MP3 will essentially re-equalize the track! Some frequencies will be boosted, and others cut. So, while it can be an interesting diversion to go listen to a bunch of different mics and pres on MP3, one *CANNOT* rely on this information to make an informed decision about a microphone preamp purchase. Listening to preamps on MP3 is pretty much like studying the Mona Lisa by looking through a Coke bottle - it simply can't be done. Or rather, it CAN be done, but you'd have to be nuts to make a purchase decision on a $2000 item, relying simply on the information that you get from this almost totally meaningless exercise. Because after you listen to a preamp through MP3, you still have no idea of what that preamp sounds like, you only know what it sounds like on an MP3 file. (And, to complicate the situation further, different MP3 encoders sound differently, as well.)

If one wants to listen to different preamps, without bothering to go to a store (which may or may not provide the patience and a quiet listening environment to make a useful comparison even possible), then I would recommend that one go to the 3D Audio site and order the preamplifier CD. This is a well-made CD, recorded in a professional studio with professional talent, and with the levels properly matched. (And, it's recorded to Redbook standard.) Now THAT can at least start you on the process of familarizing yourself with the sound of different preamplifiers.

Bassman
 
Peetr3,

Let me be real clear about my recommendation for you. YOU DO NOT NEED A NEW PREAMP!!!

Based upon your mic collection, it is very obvious that you need to spend that money on MICROPHONES, not a new preamp. I'm not familiar with the AT 440, but the other mics you listed are probably the suckiest mics in the entire world. C'mon man! A couple of 57's and 58's and AKG C1000's? And you're wanting to spend big bucks on a preamp! Say whaaaat? Oh, dude!!! :rolleyes: And, I'm not even going to ASK about your monitoring system. I don't think I want to know.

Brad
 
hahah brad the AT440 is a pretty good microphone, i know the other mics are subpar for what I'm gonig for, but I have freinds that own incredible mics they would most likely be willing to lend. Good microphones alone straight into the 002 are not going to sound that great without a good mic pre correct?
 
Peter,

I have to agree with Brad to a degree. Your microphones would most likely be the weakest link in your change. One combination that I have heard very good things about is a Shure SM7B into a Speck MicPre 5. That combo would set you back about a $1K. If you are on a budget where you need to come in at or under $2K my recommendation would be...

That would give you a great vocal channel and two very solid instrument channels and move the weak link to some other component that is going to cost a small fortune.

Luck!
 
Bassman Brad said:
The funny thing is that I've heard EXACTLY the same point being made about Neve preamps -- a really nice sound, but very colored.

First let me say, if you had read the entire thread you would have known I reversed my recommendation from NEVE to API. Regarding Neve however, you need to take some time and learn the differences. Neves are not that colored. Big ended, rich maybe but not deeply colored like a tube preamp. Of course this is a general comparison because all Neve preamps or Tube pres for that matter, don't sound the same.

Bassman Brad said:
In fact, you can record an awesome vocal track through a Neve preamp (or one of the Neve clones out there) but if you track 48 tracks through one, you'll end up with the dreaded "Neve haze." Of course, many people are so enamoured by the "Neve sound" that they don't MIND hearing a whole mix painted with that same tonal brush. But one certainly cannot consider it "neutral" or "uncolored." Because it most definitely isn't.

Neve, haze?? This guy is looking for one versatile preamp. I don't think there is a danger of this here but since I recommended the API and not the Neve in this case, this won't be a problem.

Bassman Brad said:
If one wants to listen to different preamps, without bothering to go to a store (which may or may not provide the patience and a quiet listening environment to make a useful comparison even possible), then I would recommend that one go to the 3D Audio site and order the preamplifier CD. This is a well-made CD, recorded in a professional studio with professional talent, and with the levels properly matched. (And, it's recorded to Redbook standard.) Now THAT can at least start you on the process of familarizing yourself with the sound of different preamplifiers.

Bassman

I agree on this point. Lynn's CD is a great reference product for choosing preamps. However, there is adequate detail at Dan Richards (DOTs) site to make a decision.

Peetr3 asked for crunching guitars, and drums. API would be the edge I would want for this so I stand by this recommendation. The initial lunchbox is around $700 and each module is around $479. Rougly 3-4 preamps would get him closer to recording drums than a single Neve or Tube preamp. For Synths and keyboards I might want Neve (clone) but the API (clone) would do a good job. Peetr3, if you have any soldering skills the Seventh Circle preamps should be a consideration. You could build them yourself and save some money. Resale value is not great but the preamps are stellar.
 
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