Pre for an SM7 or an RE-20?

gbondo9

gbondo9

p3n
I got to test out a Shure SM-7 and an EV RE-20 just recently on some male and female voices.

I tried them with 2 different pre-s: a Pre-sonus Eureka and my SP VTB-1.

In both cases - I didn't have enough power to drive them. I ended up maxing out the gain and getting a bunch of room/equipment hiss and as a result - neither mic sounded very good.

Both pre's sound great(quiet with little colorations) with a variety of condensers, and the gain is easily manageable.

What kind of pre (or board) do you have to match these dynamics with to get a good vocal signal out of them?
 
Were these new mics or in good condition? I can't speak to the Eureka, but the VTB should have more than enough gain (72db between input and output) to power either mic comfortably.

I use a variety of preamps (API - 65db, A-Designs P-1 , Millennia TD-1 - 65db, Purple Biz - 75db) with my SM7s and RE-20. I'd say you need at least 55db of gain (and it should be a quiet 55db of gain because you will probably be maxing the gain) for either mic. More would of course be better.
 
gbondo9 said:
I ended up maxing out the gain and getting a bunch of room/equipment hiss and as a result - neither mic sounded very good.
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Tell your equipment and room to stop hissing, then!

:D

I don't think you know what you're doing. Are you even singing in to the right end of the mic? Holy cow.

.
 
Thanks for the replies. (most of em at least.....:) )

chessrock said:
Tell your equipment and room to stop hissing, then!
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It's a well isolated booth in a quiet building and the equipment sounds great, with an very low noise floor, on mics like the U87, SP B1, NT1000 and the AT 4033. Everything is plugged into a power conditioner and all mics use the same equipment.

chessrock said:
I don't think you know what you're doing. Are you even singing in to the right end of the mic? Holy cow.
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I'm not singing - it's voicover work: The talent is just talking at a normal volume about 6 inches away from the mic with a pop filter in-between.

To clear up a few more things : The voice is much louder than the noise in the recording, and I am getting a signal. It just seems unusual to me that I have to max out my pre to get the results I'm getting.

Both mics were new. The Eureka has 54db at the input stage and +10 at the master. The VTB has more (and yielded slightly better results).
 
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Both of those mics are large diaphram dynamics, and they are known for needing more gain than your typical condensor. The VTB certainly has the gain, but as you heard, it's not entirely without self noise at the extreme gain setting. Try out a Grace 101, the high gain version. I think it will do a little better.
 
gbondo9 said:
Thanks for the replies. (most of em at least.....:) )


It's a well isolated booth in a quiet building and the equipment sounds great, with an very low noise floor, on mics like the U87, SP B1, NT1000 and the AT 4033. Everything is plugged into a power conditioner and all mics use the same equipment.


I'm not singing - it's voicover work: The talent is just talking at a normal volume about 6 inches away from the mic with a pop filter in-between.

To clear a few more things : The voice is much louder than the noise in the recording, and I am getting a signal. It's just seems unusual to me that I have to max out my pre to get the results I'm getting.

Both mics were new. The Eureka has 54db at the input stage and +10 at the master. The VTB has more (and yielded better results).
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Well if you/you're company spent the funds on the other stuff, maybe it's time to pony up and get one of those fancy hi-end pres too.;)

http://www.soundpure.com/browseProductType.do?name=PreAmplifiers

These guys are great and can lead you to a product that will suit your needs. Cheers, Rez
 
Try talking closer to the mic.
I sing 1-2 inches from the Sm7b with a screen in between.
The VTB is -5 clicks from max on the gain and -5 clicks from max on the master. Flat setting on the mic. Works fine for me.
 
Webb said:
Surprised no one has mentioned the RNP yet.
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I have one of those too. Works OK with either mic. Has 66db of gain. Not the quietest pre at full gain, but if you are close micing or using the mics for recording cabs or other loud or relatively loud sources, not a problem.
 
Step up to the mic... I'm not surprised you're having gain problems with the spoken word from 6 inches. I'd pony up for a LDC... AT 4047...
 
MOFO Pro said:
Step up to the mic... I'm not surprised you're having gain problems with the spoken word from 6 inches. I'd pony up for a LDC... AT 4047...
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We have no shortage of good LDC's. :cool:
(We do have an AT 4033 in our locker and it works great on some voices.)

I just got my hands on these dynamics and wanted to compare them to some of our current favs, but I think maybe we just weren't close enough to the mic and/or the pres don't sound that good when maxing out like that (one problem causing the other). We didn't have the mics for long and I wish I could re-test them now with different mic technique.

The Eureka especially was maxed on everything to get good gain staging - and that's where a lot of the noise came in.

How are these mics with proximity effect?
 
It's surprising that you reached for dynamics over condensors, especially for voice over work... I didn't think the mikes you listed were still available to you... or I thought you'd be using them... not a shabby mic locker at all...

Nothing wrong with your preamps... that's the gain you'd expect for the conditions you listed.

And yes... there's miles of difference, in a few inches, on most dynamics
 
MOFO Pro said:
It's surprising that you reached for dynamics over condensors, especially for voice over work... I didn't think the mikes you listed were still available to you... or I thought you'd be using them... not a shabby mic locker at all...

Nothing wrong with your preamps... that's the gain you'd expect for the conditions you listed.

And yes... there's miles of difference, in a few inches, on most dynamics
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Yeah....I wanted to test them for the following reasons:

The RE-20 is one of the most popular broadcast mics for radio and such. I see it everywhere - and have heard about it's 'condenser like' qualities - but have never used one myself. I just wanted to see how it stacked up.

The same pretty much goes for the SM-7 as far as it being condenser like and very popular for voice-over work.

I was curious to see (and still am) if a large dynamic like these would give me the same clarity of voice without the reach of a condenser.

I'm kicking myself for not testing up closer now. Ill have to see if I can get the mics back in.
 
i can only say that I like my Joe Meek with the SM7, not having had numerous pre's very minor on exp. here.
but I have ears and it's a good match imo. plenty of volume. and i always like the channel strip concept, for us who won't be having a hi-end console in the spare room.:cool:
 
I've always heard that the RE-20 has some crazy magic pop filter built in so that you can touch your lips to it and it won't pop. 6 inches away seems way too far. Get the girl right up on the mic and it'll be fine.
 
pohaku said:
Actually, if you really want a preamp that will really drive either of those two mics, I'd consider AEA's ribbon mic pre. Two channels and 83db of gain.

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/TRP.html

The prior suggestion of the high gain Grace is pretty good too.
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have you actually tried the trp and sm7/re-20 combo? i read a review of the aea trp (i believe by scott dorsey) that stated that putting many dynamics through the trp resulted in a bad sound and again, i don't remember the specifics of the review, but maybe it had to do with the differences of the impedence between the mic and pre. i believe he used an sm-57 though, which might not work as well because of an inferior transformer.
 
kojdogg said:
have you actually tried the trp and sm7/re-20 combo? i read a review of the aea trp (i believe by scott dorsey) that stated that putting many dynamics through the trp resulted in a bad sound and again, i don't remember the specifics of the review, but maybe it had to do with the differences of the impedence between the mic and pre. i believe he used an sm-57 though, which might not work as well because of an inferior transformer.
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No, haven't actually tried one with a SM7 or RE20, although I am looking at buying one for my ribbons. I haven't seen the Dorsey review. The AEA website indicates that the pre is appropriate for moving coil mics (e.g., dynamics). I also seem to recollect a favorable post GS about using it with an SM7, but don't remember the particulars. Let me see if I can track down Scott's review. The sheer amount of gain available is attractive.
 
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