Never underestimate a good analog mixer

sweetnubs said:
I hate banjo center with a vengence.
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I find Guitar Center to be a place that I can thoroughly annoy and insult their "pro" audio salesmen. However, If there is something that I want, I will throw out a rediculously low price at them. I have had them agree within a few bucks sometimes! So, I buy it.

BTW, did you ever notice that the salesmen at GC must be paid enormous bucks? Everything you talk to them about, they always start their selling speach with "That [blank] is a sweeeet unit, I have one myself..........."
 
acorec said:
Yes. I know this. But, i would have hoped that the people who manufacture the cable that Monster uses would have figured it out. The capacitance AND the resistance/ft both figure into the equation.
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Yeah. Except that the resistance can be ignored for any cable under a 100m, unless they forgot to put copper in it. :p

The inductance is more important, actually, and that can also usually be safely ignored. :D

I found this AMAZING paper on the topic, which I in my never ending kindsness share with ye lesser mortals: :D

http://www.procosound.com/downloads/inst_guide.pdf

Standard el cheapo audio cable will have capacitance of about 50-60 pf/ft. For any standard line level output, you will have to have a couple of hundred feet of cable for that cables impedance to come anywhere close to affecting sound.

So, no, going from Hosa to Monster will make no difference. And neitehr will going to le superduper mega cable, except when you run long cable runs (like 20-50 ft) OR when you use things that have a high source impedance, like microphones and especially guitars and basses and such.

Not only do you want to have a long cable so you can run around with guitar, the guitar is also very sensitive for cable capacitance. Here a 10 ft long cable can easily colour your sound.


So, save that money you were planning to put on your patch cables! It don't madda! By real good guitar cables instead.

Oh, and if you are installing fixed wiring in your studio: Use darn good cable in the fixed wiring, since you might end up running all kinds of signals there, like guitars and mics, and they tend to be quite long. First ten feet to the wall, then another ten to the patchbay and then 5 to the rack...
 
acorec said:
"That [blank] is a sweeeet unit, I have one myself..........."
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That's the best salespitch ever invented. That's just how it is. I worked many years ago with selling calculators and computers for a couple of months. I only sold one computer, and that was to a drummer, so we talked more abut music than computers, and 90% of the calculators I sold I pitched with the above statement. The only one that worked.

But, the GC guys are idiots. You can't use it more than once per pitch. So first you need to figure out what the person is likely to like most, and THEN you pitch it with "Ah, then I have the perfect thing for you. In fact, I have one myself! Very good value for money, and I think it's gonna be right up your alley" and you pull it out for them to inspect.

THAT'S how you do it. Otherwise it's to obvious.
 
So I'm in my local GC and I'm talking to the Pro Audio "experts" and I use the term loosely. So I ask them if they have ever heard of HR.com. They both give me a blank stare, "Wow, I never heard of that site".

I mean, this place has been around since 99. I know they don't train these people but I would think hanging out here should be a regular 15 minute a day mandatory activity if you're in the business.

Guess I can't beat em up too bad though. They're the ones that sold me a fully working Soundcraft board for $75 because they thought it was broken. Errrr.............love those guys at GC!!:D
 
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regebro said:
Yeah. Except that the resistance can be ignored for any cable under a 100m, unless they forgot to put copper in it. :p

]


So, no, going from Hosa to Monster will make no difference. And neitehr will going to le superduper mega cable, except when you run long cable runs (like 20-50 ft) OR when you use things that have a high source impedance, like microphones and especially guitars and basses and such.



Oh, and if you are installing fixed wiring in your studio: Use darn good cable in the fixed wiring, since you might end up running all kinds of signals there, like guitars and mics, and they tend to be quite long. First ten feet to the wall, then another ten to the patchbay and then 5 to the rack...
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Exactly. However, good quality cable will last longer. Poor quality cable oxidizes badly. Take an old Cheap cable and strip back a foot or more. You will be amazed at how black the copper is! Good cable will not sound much better, but it will last much longer.........
 
SteveE9C6

Yeah I'm finding out these are really nice pres for the price. It out shines my DMP3 but is a step down from my Focusrite Voicemaster Pro. Very useable overall and the EQ is excellent. Just a nice warm responsive sound which is great for fattening up a mix. I was just gonna clean it up and turn it around but I'm thinking it may hang around awhile.

Some of the screws were rusted and the power connecter was cracked, one knob missing. Focusrite's American Distributor sold me replacements for everything for $20. Now it looks like new.
 
Yeah to the soundcraft pres...'not bad' for recording and they're design is for FOH.....makes ya wonder how good are the Ghost pres......well I dont wonder .....i got 32 of em
 
some bash the Soundcraft, but I have always been a big fan, and I have 2 consoles at present. A FX16 Spirit and a Ghost24 LE, and the pres do sound different. I was glad to see regebro chime in on the cable lengths, I run 6 foot Hosa 24 channel trs cables to my Ghost, and I'm suppose to feel inadequate...but I don't and the thing is I am recording on a HD24XR. Its all working good together. Guess I spent a bundle on a mid-size console and couldn't afford the cabling hehe. I do like the better guitar cables and always buy good quality. Congrats on the Soundcraft Mixer...step up? A yeah!! :)
 
Well, I suppose four years later is better than no response at all.

:eek:

I'll be happy to chime my two cents in ... Guy from 1993 : I'm glad you liked your mixer.

And I hope it still works for ... whomever you have likely sold it to by now.

.
 
See, this is what is scary about forums. It's like talking to the dead across time.

I still have my little spirit by the way, it's gotten a lot of miles.

This thread is 4 years old. I don't even have the Voicemaster Pro or the DMP3 any more. My front end is a Neve 5012, a 5043 and a pair of 5033s.
 
I'm a fan of Soundcraft desks. I had a Ghost many years ago and now have a Sapphyre. The Sapphyre is beautiful, don't get me wrong I really liked the Ghost but it is a big step up. The Ghost has about 60dB crosstalk compared to over 90dB in the Sapphyre for example. I believe the Delta's were the same spec as the Sapphyre.

Soundcraft don't seem to be very fashionable but they made some great boards.

The Sapphyre was £20,000 new, I picked mine up for £1400 and spent another £1600 on a de-soldering tool, new faders, switches, re-capping, 4 external bantam patchbays, Mogami and Neutrik wiring and the master section modded by Audio Upgrades.
 
regebro said:
Yeah. Except that the resistance can be ignored for any cable under a 100m, unless they forgot to put copper in it. :p

The inductance is more important, actually, and that can also usually be safely ignored. :D

I found this AMAZING paper on the topic, which I in my never ending kindsness share with ye lesser mortals: :D

http://www.procosound.com/downloads/inst_guide.pdf

Standard el cheapo audio cable will have capacitance of about 50-60 pf/ft. For any standard line level output, you will have to have a couple of hundred feet of cable for that cables impedance to come anywhere close to affecting sound.

So, no, going from Hosa to Monster will make no difference. And neitehr will going to le superduper mega cable, except when you run long cable runs (like 20-50 ft) OR when you use things that have a high source impedance, like microphones and especially guitars and basses and such.

Not only do you want to have a long cable so you can run around with guitar, the guitar is also very sensitive for cable capacitance. Here a 10 ft long cable can easily colour your sound.


So, save that money you were planning to put on your patch cables! It don't madda! By real good guitar cables instead.

Oh, and if you are installing fixed wiring in your studio: Use darn good cable in the fixed wiring, since you might end up running all kinds of signals there, like guitars and mics, and they tend to be quite long. First ten feet to the wall, then another ten to the patchbay and then 5 to the rack...
Click to expand...

Well stated...copper is copper untill you start dealing with high (RF) frequencies and high voltages. Don't know of any audio gear rated in the kilovolt range...yet! The only real difference in 10-20 foot cable will lie in durability. If you are gonna be stepping on them, moving them, or constantly changing connections, the higher priced ones may be worth it.
 
I believe that while copper is copper the purity of the copper used in wire makes a difference. I am not an engineer or electronics guy so I can't explain why....... however after 2 years of working at a very high end audiophile hifi store where we spent lots of time ab testing - there was a really noticeable difference to the human ear between cables. In a hifi front end in the $200K range it is particularly noticeable if you have really high quality sound sources - not subtle at all. Perhaps an engineering type can explain why.

One of the top audio designers told me that you lose a tiny bit of info at every connection. His ideal amplification circuit was a straight wire with gain .... hadn't perfected it yet though. lol He also showed us how making sure ac plugs all matched up made a detectable (to human ear) sonic difference. Go figure.
 
one thing people overlook, is that capacitance in a a cable, while it may not be enough to directly color the sound; it can alter the freq response of the source. A good example would be single ended output tube amps which can have a dramatically different freq response depending on the capacitance of the speaker cables.
 
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