Line level input vs. DI

There are a number of high end preamps with dedicated line inputs (NOT DIs) - Crane Song and Buzz are 2 off the top of my head. Most preamps have at least 2, and sometimes more, gain stages, and the line inputs usually feed the circuit right after the 1st stage, so the signal can benefit (or suffer detriment) from the rest of the circuitry. A DI input should have the equivalent of a passive DI box built in and feeding the 1st gain stage, taking advantage of all the subsequent circuitry. The primary purpose of a DI (input or box) is to provide proper impedance matching for pickups, which have a significantly higher impedance than a microphone or line level signal.

A secondary function of DI boxes (though not necessarily inputs) is to balance the signal to avoid losses in long cable runs - e.g. from stage to FOH mixer. Most preamps (even high end) are unbalanced internally, and provide balancing at the output, often using a transformer. Many people like the 'sound' or 'color' of particular preamps, and so might use them to inject line level signals to the next piece of gear in the recording chain.

Some preamps do have a dual purpose line/DI input - the better ones are usually switchable between functions. In ones that aren't, the input impedance is usually a compromise between the best for line and the best for instrument - the sound may suffer a little on one and/or the other application, but only your own ears will tell you if this is a 'deal breaker' for your purposes.

Thanks for the clear explanation.

Here's what I'm thinking...
Perhaps the line level input wasn't always something available because when the world was analog, it wasn't really necessary. Now that so much is recorded digitally, there's a greater need to take those raw tracks and make them sound better, so pres with line level inputs may be more common in the future. Does that make any sense to you? I'm not sure if my reasoning is sound on this; I'm just trying to connect the dots.
 
There are a number of high end preamps with dedicated line inputs (NOT DIs) - Crane Song and Buzz are 2 off the top of my head. .

Which models? I wasn't able to find one from either vendor. Unless you are referring to a channel strip maybe? They all have line inputs.

Some preamps do have a dual purpose line/DI input - the better ones are usually switchable between functions. In ones that aren't, the input impedance is usually a compromise between the best for line and the best for instrument - the sound may suffer a little on one and/or the other application, but only your own ears will tell you if this is a 'deal breaker' for your purposes.

Which models? I have never seen a preamp with switchable functions for the DI, and I have used nearly every expensive preamp on the planet.
 
So the OP's original question is invalid. They are the same thing. OSA is just ripping people off to convert the line in to a DI. Sorry, I must have everything confused. :rolleyes: I give up. In fact, I'm gonna fire off a letter to Mr Fearn! I paid damn good money for a line to mic level converter, when here all along they are the same! Dammit. :(

No it isn't invalid...but if he gets one of the boxes i told you about you can use the front 1/4" for both instrument in (functioning as a DI) and a line-in (functioning as a line level input to "warm things up" - for lack of a better word.)

I'm not sure what the confusion is all about. Call whoever you want...you're dealing with sematics and tripping over yourself to do so to prove a point that the 1/4"'s on the front of many mic pres are not dedicated line inputs or DI's even though they can be used as such. Kudos. You deserve a tech award.

Later.
Mike
 
An instrument and line level input both regularly employ a 1/4 in jack, you can plug in any 1/4 inch plug you choose, the question is... should you?
 
Oh... and they're starting to complain about the dead horse smell all the way over in the mic forum...
 
Oh... and they're starting to complain about the dead horse smell all the way over in the mic forum...

mics?? they shouldn't plug those in on the line level in or on the DI in, even though they're both the same thing sometimes... except when they're not.

irregardless, those mic things should probably use the mic in, unless you don't. then you probably should have unless you didn't. in which case you shouldn't worry about it.

Mike
 
mics?? they shouldn't plug those in on the line level in or on the DI in, even though they're both the same thing sometimes... except when they're not.

irregardless, those mic things should probably use the mic in, unless you don't. then you probably should have unless you didn't. in which case you shouldn't worry about it.

Mike



ROTFLMAO. Now it's all clear
 
NL5 -
The CS and Buzz products I was referring to were the Spider and the ARC 1.1, so your channel strip observation was apropos. As far as a switchable line/instrument input, I have used something in the past (maybe 15-20 years ago) that had this feature, and it was also brought up by one of the engineer/techs who mentored me in the early years of my recording education. It's quite possible that no one is doing this any more, but it certainly has been done. Everything else in my post was based upon my electronics background (Navy '70s) and 25+ years in studios.

I'm not sure what any of it means relative to the OP's question. A line input and a DI shouldn't be the same thing (for impedance and signal level considerations), but apparently some manufacturers and end users are interchanging the 2 with some success. As for me, I use dedicated DI boxes, and only put line level signals into line inputs. I guess I'm just "Old School"

Scott
 
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So now the function of a DI box is clear. Adds gain (plus any 'color' from the transformer) to pick-up level signal, changing to mic level, balances it, isolates input signal from output signal.

Now let me see if I understand DI input into a pre-amp. Again, pick-up level input signal passes through first of two gain stages in the pre-amp to bring it up to mic level. Then it routes it through the second preamp gain stage to bump it up to line level. So here's the last question (I hope). DRUM ROLL Please...Does it come out of the pre-amp ballanced, unbalanced or either, depending on which line out you choose?
 
So now the function of a DI box is clear. Adds gain (plus any 'color' from the transformer) to pick-up level signal, changing to mic level, balances it, isolates input signal from output signal.

Now let me see if I understand DI input into a pre-amp. Again, pick-up level input signal passes through first of two gain stages in the pre-amp to bring it up to mic level. Then it routes it through the second preamp gain stage to bump it up to line level. So here's the last question (I hope). DRUM ROLL Please...Does it come out of the pre-amp ballanced, unbalanced or either, depending on which line out you choose?
Man... I hope you're just screwin' around, I can't take another 20 posts on this...

Oh, either..
 
OK, thanks. I'll never be unclear about this again. Thanks to the more experienced on this board for passing on your knowledge. Now lets let this horse RIP.
 
Okay I think I get it... the mic level gets compressed at the 3rd gain stage and then ramped up to instrument level, then the DI rechannels it through gain stage 2 for "color" and preamps it for a low level line impedance at 4db. At that point you could repeat the signal to as many cord configurations as you want! Not to mention all the tranny saturators you'll be processing along the way!!

Thanks guys! :listeningmusic:
 
So now the function of a DI box is clear. Adds gain (plus any 'color' from the transformer) to pick-up level signal, changing to mic level, balances it, isolates input signal from output signal.

Now let me see if I understand DI input into a pre-amp. Again, pick-up level input signal passes through first of two gain stages in the pre-amp to bring it up to mic level. Then it routes it through the second preamp gain stage to bump it up to line level. So here's the last question (I hope). DRUM ROLL Please...Does it come out of the pre-amp ballanced, unbalanced or either, depending on which line out you choose?
Mic level is lower than instrument level. the Di will generally bring the instrument level DOWN to Mic level, so the Mic preamp can do its normal job of bringing Mic level signals up to line level.

As the Di brings the level down it also brings the impedance down and balances the signal.
 
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