lets talk preamps

number of outboard preamps do you own thats at least $ a channel?

  • no outboard preamps

    Votes: 22 11.1%
  • 1-2 thats $100 a channel

    Votes: 39 19.7%
  • 1-2 thats $200-499 a channel

    Votes: 46 23.2%
  • 1-2 thats $500-999 a channel

    Votes: 26 13.1%
  • 1-2 thats $1000+ a channel

    Votes: 18 9.1%
  • 2-4 thats $100 a channel

    Votes: 12 6.1%
  • 2-4 thats $200-499 a channel

    Votes: 26 13.1%
  • 2-4 thats $500-999 a channel

    Votes: 29 14.6%
  • 2-4 thats 1000+ a channel

    Votes: 15 7.6%
  • I only have the best period

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • I could care less about preamps

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • whats a preamp?

    Votes: 9 4.5%

  • Total voters
    198
I just scored a mint (still has 3 years on their transferable warranty) Manley/Langevin Dual Vocal Combo.
Been wanting one of these f-o-r-e-v-e-r!!! :cool:
This will add to my solid state preamp choices. I already have another SS pre, along with a couple of tube pres....all fairly decent, higher end stuff.

2-channel Langevin DVC (SS)
2-channel Groove Tubes SuPre (Tube)
4-channel Sebatron VMP 4000e (Tube/SS)
4-channel CLM Dynamics DB400 (SS)

I've slowly cycled out my "middlin" pres over the last couple of years and replaced them with these better units. I would still like to still get one of the Manley tube pre boxes, maybe a UA 2610, or a Vintech, or an API... :)
 
I just scored a mint (still has 3 years on their transferable warranty) Manley/Langevin Dual Vocal Combo.
Been wanting one of these f-o-r-e-v-e-r!!! :cool:
This will add to my solid state preamp choices. I already have another SS pre, along with a couple of tube pres....all fairly decent, higher end stuff.

2-channel Langevin DVC (SS)
2-channel Groove Tubes SuPre (Tube)
4-channel Sebatron VMP 4000e (Tube/SS)
4-channel CLM Dynamics DB400 (SS)

I've slowly cycled out my "middlin" pres over the last couple of years and replaced them with these better units. I would still like to still get one of the Manley tube pre boxes, maybe a UA 2610, or a Vintech, or an API... :)

Thats a nice list. LOVE the DVC. Sounds like you're ready for a 3124 API for sure. I will recommend one other pre that a lot of people shine on and I'm not sure why. Focusrite ISA. An old 110 if you can find one is the top of the heap there but the ISA 428 is incredibly affordable, has great sound and flexibility. Do not confuse the ISA circuit with ANY of the 'Platinum" series Focusrite. NOT the same by a long long shot. Then theres the Red series. This is Manley quality territory. Probably why they havent changed much in 20 years.
 
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Shadow hills 500 series. I love the 500 series because you can easily mix and match stuff. you can also buy a pre at a time!
 
Probably sounds as good as any other $50.00 preamp... which is not very.

Probably targeted at the podcast market
 
Ok, I will play. Here are the ones I use.

2 Ch of JMK JM-130
2 Ch of JMK JM-110 (Dual DI PreAmp)
2 Ch of Audio Upgrades High Speed Mic Preamp
4 Ch of Symetrix SX202 (heavily mod'ed)

Here is my 3 year update and I am happy to say that my colection is complete.

2 Ch of JMK JM-130
2 Ch of JMK JM-110 (Dual DI PreAmp)
2 Ch of Dementer H series tube Mic Pre
4 Ch of Symetrix SX202 (heavily mod'ed)
8 Ch of JLM Baby Animal Dual

The Baby Animal has OPA2604A in all opamp sockets.
4 of the pres have OEP A262A3E Input Transformers/ Carnhill CA-18-VTB2280 Output Transformers (JLM99v future opamp upgrade)
The other 4 have Cinemag CM-75101PCA Input Transformers/ API 2503 Output Transformers (JLM25HV future opamp upgrade)
The preamp was built by Regular John Recording and the power supply was custom built by JMK Audio.

I sold the Audio Upgrades High Speed Mic Preamp 2 years ago.
 
I know next to nothing about preamps. So if I am miking a guitar amp, am I going to have to plug the mic into the preamp. Or not? If so, how am I going to plug this into my computer? Through a firewire audio interface or something?
 
I know next to nothing about preamps. So if I am miking a guitar amp, am I going to have to plug the mic into the preamp. Or not? If so, how am I going to plug this into my computer? Through a firewire audio interface or something?

You will need an audio interface with preamps. There are several reasonably priced interfaces with excellent preamps. What's your budget?
 
I know next to nothing about preamps. So if I am miking a guitar amp, am I going to have to plug the mic into the preamp. Or not? If so, how am I going to plug this into my computer? Through a firewire audio interface or something?

That is correct. The preamp usually outputs to the computer by USB or firewire. The annoying truth that most beginners just don't want to hear is that real mics don't plug into computers. Note this, however- A computer recording interface generally has one or more preamps built in. Although they are generally not the finest preamps in the world, which can cost thousands per channel, good interfaces have components that are meant to work together. So- if you have a $200 interface and a $2000 preamp, it still goes through the Analog to Digital converters in the interface. So- if you upgrade the preamp, you soon learn that you need to upgrade the A-D conversion- more big bucks. Mixers also contain preamps, usually among the cheapest ones on the planet, and some mixers have A-D converters and digital output, so they can be used as an interface. Some recorders also have preamps, A-D conversion, and digital output, and may function as an interface as well. In all cases, I recommend at least 2 channels to start with, to enable stereo recording, or at least the simultaneous use of 2 mics.

Here are a couple of my favorite simple 2 channel interfaces:

I like this one for cheap:

M-Audio MobilePre MK II | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

I prefer this, especially if you are a guitarist:

Line 6 POD Studio UX2 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

Then we get into the recorders. This one has a lot of versatility, and a pretty good track record:

Zoom H4n | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

So- why would you pay the extra money for a recorder/interface? First, you can take it wherever you are, without the need for a computer. It'll fit in a lot of guitar cases. You can use it for a headphone amp, a scratch pad, on trips, or for remote recording. When you upgrade to a better system, unlike the plain interface, it will still have uses, instead of being sold at a loss. In short, it doesn't become useless. I used a Korg PXR4 Pandora that way for some time, but eventually it became obsolete. The Zoom blew it away.

The H4N has a few other advantages. First, it has 2 onboard condenser mics, and second, the ability to record 4 tracks simultaneously, as long as 2 of them are the onboard mics, or a stereo mic. So- I can record drums by putting the H4N on a mic stand (with included adapter), using the onboard mics as the overheads, and the 2 XLR inputs for kick and snare. This really needs you to have the remote control card, which is an aftermarket accessory, about $20. Or- I can plug a stereo mic into the 3.5mm stereo input, which disables the onboard mics, and use that for the overheads. I use SONY ECM MS-957 for this, which works very well with the Zoom. For higher quality remote stereo recording, I use a pair of AKG C2000B's, which also get along just fine with the H4N. The money I have made selling stereo choral recordings made with this setup has already paid for the H4N and the 2 C2000B's.

By all means, the UX-2 or the Mobilepre will meet your most basic needs, but increasingly, I have become convinced that a machine like the H4n is one of the best self-contained solutions for cutting your teeth on recording. If it's the only piece of equipment you have, you can start recording on day 1.
And, even if you are operating at almost pro level, you will still find uses for it. I've got about $40,000 in the studio, and I still use the little Zoom quite a bit.

As far as the original discussion, if we have all these interface options, why would we want a preamp that doesn't do anything but be a preamp? There are several answers. One- because you need to plug into a recording sound card or digital recorder that doesn't have preamps, and there are still some out there. (do a search on Audiophile 2496 for such a soundcard, and on HD24 for a very cool older recorder as examples) Two- you are trying to bypass, or at least decrease the gain on the cruddy preamps in an otherwise useful piece of equipment, such as an older digital recorder. Three- You are using dynamic mics that have very low output, and you simply need more clean gain than your interface can provide. This is common with ribbon mics, and high quality dynamics such as Shure SM7b. Four- you really are ready to upgrade to pro level or closer-to pro level, and you really want a badass preamp to go with your badass A-D converter.

Really top level preamps are prized for 2 reasons. Either because they make things sound exactly the way they sound (we call this "clean" or "transparent"), or because they make things sound *better* than they sound, in other words, they are flattering, like acoustic makeup (we call this "colored" or "warm"). Do not get confused when marketers try to convince you that a vacuum tube will make a preamp sound "warm", or is somehow necessary. It's just marketing. There are clean and colored preamps, great ones, and awful ones, with and without tubes. In general, if you have a real need for a standalone preamp, I recommend getting 2 good clean channels to start, and then considering more colorful preamps later, to flatter what *you* want to flatter, the way *you* want to flatter it. For purposes of reference, you will also hear the term "channel strip". This is a preamp with one or more channels that also has EQ and a compressor. For the record, mostly I use Avalon AD2022 (2 godly clean channels) and Joemeek twinQ (a mid-priced 2-channel channel strip with an optical compressor).
IMHO, the cheapest standalone preamp you can buy with 2 clean channels that doesn't totally suck is M-Audio DMP-3.

I hope that helps to clear up some of the preamp mysteries, both on the technical side, and the artistic side. Good luck.
 
Wow, thanks for the long, detailed reply. So if I wanted to get an "all in one" I should go for the joemeek, or some other channel strip and later on get some other equipment? Also, do I have to plug the channel strip into a interface, or is it good to go as it is? And how important is the interface? I'm assuming it is important, but not as important as a quality preamp or channel strip. We are also not going to be recording drums, we will be using superior drummer/ezdrummer for a while because we can't afford to mic real drums. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get this right the first time. We are also a metal band, if that changes anything.
 
Wow, thanks for the long, detailed reply. So if I wanted to get an "all in one" I should go for the joemeek, or some other channel strip and later on get some other equipment? Also, do I have to plug the channel strip into a interface, or is it good to go as it is? And how important is the interface? I'm assuming it is important, but not as important as a quality preamp or channel strip. We are also not going to be recording drums, we will be using superior drummer/ezdrummer for a while because we can't afford to mic real drums. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get this right the first time. We are also a metal band, if that changes anything.

You don't get it quite yet, Notaspy. A recording interface *is* the all-in-one solution. A preamp, or a channel strip, is one part of a component system. Although the twinQ does have digital output in the form of S/PDIF (Sony-Phillips Digital Interface), most computers don't have S/PDIF input. You need a computer recording interface with USB or firewire output to talk to most computers. The Joemeek is *not* a computer interface- it's a dual channel strip. I plug it into a Digi 002, which is a bigger and better computer interface in the $1200 range (now it's upgraded to Digi 003). I do this because it's a better preamp than the ones built into the Digi 002, and I like its compressor for certain uses. The Digi 002 has 4 channels with preamps, 4 more without preamps, S/PDIF input for 2 more, and optical ADAT for 8 more. By using all of its inputs and all of my preamps, I can record up to 18 simultaneous tracks, which I almost never do. This also means you have to have 18 mics, 18 mic stands, 18 cables, etc. It's taken me years and a bunch of money to be able to do that. You are way ahead of yourself. What you should concentrate on now, one step at a time, is a good interface, a usable pair of small diaphragm condensers, one large diaphragm condenser, and some decent dynamic mics. A twinQ would set you back about $1000, and right now, you need to spread the money around, not sink it into one specialized part of a component system. And- the fact that you are trying to record a metal band does mean something. Recording equipment doesn't know or care what it is recording. But- it *does* mean you'll need dynamic mics, which you most likely already have. It also suggests that in the end, you are going to need a bunch of channels, mostly for drums. If you have the funds, you might do better to invest in a recording interface with more than 2 channels, such as:

M-Audio ProFire 2626 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

I would start as follows:

interface: Get one with USB or firewire output and the most channels you can afford. For a band, 4 will be absolutely necessary, and 8 is much better. The alternative is to send the drums to a mixer, and record the mixer's left and right main outputs as 2 channels to the interface. This is a pain, as it means you cannot adjust the level or EQ the individual drums later. This is called a submix, and whatever you recorded, you are stuck with it. In a perfect world, every drum mic goes to its own channel. It only takes *money*.

SD condensers: Studio Projects C-4, Rode NT-5, Oktava MC012, or for cheap, Marshall Electronics MXL 604. These are your drum overheads, and for what you want to do, they are critical.

LD condenser: Marshall Electronics MXL V67G. Most folks would use this for a main vocal mic. Whether your lead singer sounds better through a condenser or a dynamic will depend on his voice and the quality of his mic technique.

Dynamics: Most folks love Shure SM57. I'm not really one of them. I prefer the discontinued AKG D770, or Sennheiser e835. For wicked cheap, Behringer XM8500 is actually pretty good. You'll need a bunch of these for drums, including a dedicated kick drum mic, such as AKG D112 or Audix D6. For main vocals, eventually you will want a really good dynamic, such as Electrovoice RE-20 or Shure SM7b.

Just start with the interface and dynamic mics. Then add the SD condensers, and then the LD condenser as funds become available. Don't buy the cheapest condensers by Marshall, Behringer, Nady, or anybody else. Start with inexpensive, not cheap.

The only thing that matters about metal, is that you are trying to record *a band*. This takes a bunch of channels/preamps and a bunch of mics, stands, and cables, as well as headphone distribution and a bunch of headphones. This equals a bunch of money. You are starting with the hardest and most expensive thing to do. We'll be there for you, but don't ask me how to do the Indianapolis 500 with a Honda Fit. Good luck.
 
Is it possible to double up on the interface you recommended me so I could record 16 tracks for the drums? Our drummer has 5 toms and two bass drums.
 
Is it possible to double up on the interface you recommended me so I could record 16 tracks for the drums? Our drummer has 5 toms and two bass drums.

Sorry, I don't know for sure. I'm not an engineer, so I actually have to do stuff to know that it works. I'm pretty sure you can daisy chain 2 of the older M-Audio Octanes, and it follows that you could do it with this newer model. In practical terms, you could send 8 channels from the one to the other by optical ADAT, giving you your 16 channels with preamps, and the option to add more if you want to add on additional preamps. To be sure, I would email M-Audio tech support, and they could verify that it can work.
 
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