I'm New Here Don't Get Too Harsh.......

[Sinistah]

well im here because i record vocals only from analog to digital using a channel strip (presonus eureka) as well as a supplemental A/D converter card. alot of times my mixes vary too far from being "consistent", i'm not sure if its an analog or digital issue, meaning the analog settings on the Eureka or a post recording issue.

my question is what is a safe start-off setting for me to incorperate via analog as far as compression, equalizing, and even the saturation knob (tube alternate) and things of that nature

or should i leave everything flat and wait til i'm in the mixing stages to deal with compression and EQ'ing..... my purpose for it was initially for a pre-amp to power up my AKG 400 Perception mic, but i want to be able to effectively use all of it's functions.....

Thanks in Advance

 

[MOFO Pro]

or should i leave everything flat and wait til i'm in the mixing stages to deal with compression and EQ'ing.....

If at all possible... yes... especially if you're having trouble getting consistant quality... There are good reasons to compress going in... I prefer not too... but the EQ is better left for in the mix in almost all cases

 

[Sinistah]

If at all possible... yes... especially if you're having trouble getting consistant quality... There are good reasons to compress going in... I prefer not too... but the EQ is better left for in the mix in almost all cases

yeah i kinda figured EQ'ing during pre-recording was semi-retarded, but i was just fooling around with the box when i was doing it......and i was also told by an engineer who primarily does Hip-Hop mixing and mastering that compression should be done prior to recording and retweaked during the post-recording.

with that said what are some "safe" start-off settings to work from, i know it's all on my ears and personal satisfaction with the results, but i don't wanna stray too far from a solid foundation when i'm actually handling the vox part of my projects. I see alot of people prefer the 4:1 ratio like religion, but what would be some safe attack and release points, the threshold and gain, i can figure out as i'm doing a "mic check", i have no idea what a sidechain hi-pass is, so i wont even mess wit that, and i'll assume that i'll be keepin the Panametric EQ on "bypass" since its no logical use for that on vocals being that i can EQ everything digitally once it's recorded.

as far as the mixing and prelim mastering aspects, i'll let the other sections of the forums answer those.....

thanks for the reply

 

[chessrock]

...what are some "safe" start-off settings to work from ...

I think this is a good answer ...

... i know it's all on my ears and personal satisfaction with the results

As far as "safe" settings ... the only truly "safe" one is everything disengaged, bypassed and/or at unity.

You need to learn the settings, understand them, and then decide how much you want to commit to during the tracking in terms of the settings. Obviously, if you want to play it safe, then use moderate settings and don't get too carried away / extreme. That's all you can really say ... there are no definitive settings that I or anyone else can give you and have it even be remotely useful unless it's by chance / accident.

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[Sinistah]

I think this is a good answer ...



As far as "safe" settings ... the only truly "safe" one is everything disengaged, bypassed and/or at unity.

You need to learn the settings, understand them, and then decide how much you want to commit to during the tracking in terms of the settings. Obviously, if you want to play it safe, then use moderate settings and don't get too carried away / extreme. That's all you can really say ... there are no definitive settings that I or anyone else can give you and have it even be remotely useful unless it's by chance / accident.

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thanks for being nice in telling me i answered my own question, lmaooo

but nah i understand and appreciate what you saying, i think i'mma fool around between a 3:1 and 4:1 ratio, while keeping a fast attack and have the release slightly lower and work my way up (or down)

while starting off the threshold somewhere near a -20 and working up from there with a slight touch of gain if needed...... i tried this once b4 and got pretty good end results with limited use of effect processing......

i still have no idea what the sidechain hi-pass is

and i think i'll leave the Panametric EQ on bypass since it wont be used until the mixing which i will use the digital EQ for if needed post recording.....

but as far as pre-recording, i usually don't do too much on the analog side of things because as you would obviously know "what goes in, stays in" so i try to play it more safe than sorry thats why i was asking if it was any semi-uniformed start-off settings......

thanks!

 

[chessrock]

I think I see where you're getting at.

With the compressor, a more conservative setting might be 2:1 or 3:1. Faster attack, longer release.

Very generally speaking ... the higher the ratio, the slower the attack and the shorter the release ... then the more extreme / noticeable the setting will be.

And when you're just starting out, a more conservative setting might be a good idea ... just to start out.

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[Sinistah]

I think I see where you're getting at.

With the compressor, a more conservative setting might be 2:1 or 3:1. Faster attack, longer release.

Very generally speaking ... the higher the ratio, the slower the attack and the shorter the release ... then the more extreme / noticeable the setting will be.

And when you're just starting out, a more conservative setting might be a good idea ... just to start out.

.

wow, i think i may have only recorded with those ratio's once respectively because usually i'm recording from a 4:1, i might incorperate those in a few ghost recordings just to compare the difference in how i sound at 2:1, 3:1, and 4:1 because my voice is deep and lower than the average rapper guy who screamin into a mic like he's allergic air.....

i never even thought of changing the analog ratios prior to this, not of not understanding the purpose of it, i guess i was just in a comfort zone of the 4:1 thing....

learnin somethin new each trip to this site!

 

[chessrock]

Just use what you like. If you like more compression ... then use a higher ratio. If you like less or if you're unsure, then use a lower ratio. Not sure how much you know about this stuff, so forgive me if I'm talking down as I don't mean to. But Ratio is just a term that refers, very generally speaking, to the "amount" (or severety) of compression.

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[amra]

Here are some things specific to the eureka:

If you are using a dynamic mic, check the impedance specs on it and make sure and set the impedance on the Eureka to match.

Changing the impedance setting on the eureka has a DRASTIC difference on the sound of a dynamic mic, and not necessarily good, if you don't have it set right.

Also, turn the "saturate" knob all the way down, until you get your mixes sounding good, then experiment with it.

 

[Sinistah]

Just use what you like. If you like more compression ... then use a higher ratio. If you like less or if you're unsure, then use a lower ratio. Not sure how much you know about this stuff, so forgive me if I'm talking down as I don't mean to. But Ratio is just a term that refers, very generally speaking, to the "amount" (or severety) of compression.

.

oh no, i know what ratio is, i understand alot of stuff perfectly clear as far as the terms and general purpose, it's the technique of applying them to actual scenario's that i gotta get used to.....

No offense taken at all trust me, i seen some posters get scorched 20 times beyond the level of anything considered "talking down" in this thread

i'm just absorbing all this stuff like a sponge and hoping i remember enough to keep it in handy when it comes time for me to utilize it.....

 

[Sinistah]

Here are some things specific to the eurkea:

If you are using a dynamic mic, check the impedance specs on it and make sure and set the impedance on the Eureka to match.

Changing the impedance setting on the eureka has a DRASTIC difference on the sound of a dynamic mic, and not necessarily good, if you don't have it set right.

Also, turn the "saturate" knob all the way down, until you get your mixes sounding good, then experiment with it.

oh nah fam, my ohms are on-point and match my mic specifications, thats not the issue, and i use a condensor mic (AKG Perception 400, good for acoustics and general vocals)

but with the saturation thing, so u tellin me not to touch it until after the vocals are recorded? because my set-up is just for quick 2-tracking, well not literally a two-track, but some quick mixtape type songs or for emergency purposes.... i mean i know the saturation knob is a tube alternate, but how i work that is, i use it depending on the sound of the instrumental, if it's a wind-instrument heavy track, i turn it up to keep my voice from being smothered by horns and flutes and shit, if it's a dark percussion-heavy track, i leave it alone cause my voice is naturally deep and low.........

but my home set-up is strickly for recording, my mic has a dB cut-off level and the options to go omni or cardiod, so that coupled with my rooms natural reverb, sounds going in ain't the problem, it's compressing the extra sounds that exist afterwards, my cabling is gold-plated for the most part so i'm not gettin no retardation thru the wire currents that would leak into the actual tracks.....

my technique is just wreckless!!!

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

my technique is just wreckless!!!

Don't compress on the way in then! I don't understand why it would be mandatory (unless you have a really nice comp that you can't patch into your rig for mixdown).

It's much easier to learn compression if you have a clean, uncompressed track to play around with at the mixdown stage, rather than just committing your guesses to hard disk and not being able to make adjustments to see how changing parameters changes the way the compressor interacts with the source material.

 

[Sinistah]

Don't compress on the way in then! I don't understand why it would be mandatory (unless you have a really nice comp that you can't patch into your rig for mixdown).

It's much easier to learn compression if you have a clean, uncompressed track to play around with at the mixdown stage, rather than just committing your guesses to hard disk and not being able to make adjustments to see how changing parameters changes the way the compressor interacts with the source material.

i know what you sayin, but my technique isn't that wreckless, lmaooo

but honestly, i like to compress going in now that i have a "box" because it leaves a nice starting point for digital mixing so i wouldn't have to sacrifice sound due to the bombardment of plug-ins... i just record vocals, nothing complex like instruments or what have you.......

 

[Rick Shepherd]

I use just a small amount of compression and EQ going in, but only because I know what works for my voice and recordings. If I were recording someone else, I would add the extra stuff after the fact. It means knowing your equipment and the subject you are recording, good luck in your quest.

 

[fraserhutch]

i know what you sayin, but my technique isn't that wreckless, lmaooo

but honestly, i like to compress going in now that i have a "box" because it leaves a nice starting point for digital mixing so i wouldn't have to sacrifice sound due to the bombardment of plug-ins... i just record vocals, nothing complex like instruments or what have you.......

I think the point made above is that you should be able to patch any compressor in to a track AFTER tracking. Do you have sends and returns available to you? The idea is, track without compression, and SEND that track to the compressor and RETURN the compressor's output to a NEW track. That way, you never mess with the original track, and you can mess with the compressor's settings in real time. The added bonus is that this is a great way to learn what you like with compressor settings.

IMHO the only time you HAVE to compress going in nowadays is when the signal is just too dynamic for your recording system.

 

[Sinistah]

I use just a small amount of compression and EQ going in, but only because I know what works for my voice and recordings. If I were recording someone else, I would add the extra stuff after the fact. It means knowing your equipment and the subject you are recording, good luck in your quest.

thanks, and i try not to do too much with the "box" i just make sure when i record i have it to a level thats workable once i start my digital editing.... actually i got the box mainly cause i needed phantom power, but thought it was reasonable enough price-wise to enjoy the compressor and EQ too.....

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I think the point made above is that you should be able to patch any compressor in to a track AFTER tracking. Do you have sends and returns available to you? The idea is, track without compression, and SEND that track to the compressor and RETURN the compressor's output to a NEW track. That way, you never mess with the original track, and you can mess with the compressor's settings in real time. The added bonus is that this is a great way to learn what you like with compressor settings.

Prezactly!

IMHO the only time you HAVE to compress going in nowadays is when the signal is just too dynamic for your recording system.

And in this day and age (of 24 bit recording) that's a pretty rare worry.

 

[Sinistah]

I think the point made above is that you should be able to patch any compressor in to a track AFTER tracking. Do you have sends and returns available to you? The idea is, track without compression, and SEND that track to the compressor and RETURN the compressor's output to a NEW track. That way, you never mess with the original track, and you can mess with the compressor's settings in real time. The added bonus is that this is a great way to learn what you like with compressor settings.

IMHO the only time you HAVE to compress going in nowadays is when the signal is just too dynamic for your recording system.

i understand that, but my room isn't sound treated, so i compress before hand to eliminate spare audio that may perhaps seep into the mic and "redline" it, like traffic from outside my window, or if i'm washing/drying my clothes which is right outside my door, as opposed to doing it for vocal enhancement thats why i said the sound "varries" but as far as my voice, i'd still do very small compression cause i know how i like to sound on a track....

sometimes extra sounds kinda leak into the track, so i'd compress it a bit to shut those sounds out of the initial recording and actually it shuts those extra noises out as if they never existed or lowers em to the point it doesn't mesh into the track...

but beyond that if i need to digitally compress for actual vocal reasons it's because it gives me a better veiw of the levels opposed to compressing and reading levels on my actual "box" if i had a box strictly for compressing i would probably use the method from your post because it would be primarily for that, or find the highest peak of my vocals and normalize it to be safe..

i know both ways can get the job done, but i do it like i do it because it's just easier for me to work like that instead of worrying about trying to compress the background noise and then touch-up my vocals at the same time...

thats just me, but i comprehended what both of you guys were saying and i'd definitely try the method you two are speaking of as well not only for comparison but for versatility
thanks again!

 

[Sinistah]

Prezactly!

And in this day and age (of 24 bit recording) that's a pretty rare worry.

and i'm not too sure of how to patch it or "send and return" from my analog to digital, i'm fairly new to using a box, i do the analog seperate and then after it's done, i digitally touch it up....

like i said, it's just easier for me to do it that way, perhaps a little more clarity on how to patch it would be helpful.....

 

[MOFO Pro]

sometimes extra sounds kinda leak into the track, so i'd compress it a bit to shut those sounds out of the initial recording and actually it shuts those extra noises out as if they never existed or lowers em to the point it doesn't mesh into the track...

Compression will actually bring these levels up in the track... unless you're talking about gating... Close the window... and save the laundry for after the "session"