Graphic EQ: A Joke?

antispatula

antispatula

Active member
I've always heard people bashing graphic eq, but never payed much mind. So I continued using the free graphic eq plugin I downloaded.
Then a little bit ago a friend gave me Sonar 5. Compared to REAPER I didn't like it, so never gave it a second thought. But when installing it, it also installed a bunch of new plugins. One of them was a nice little parametric eq.

Wow. I've been able to get results from my equipment that I never thought possible, simply because I stopped using graphic and went to parametric.

I feel stupid for using graphic eq for so long! Does anyone agree, or perhaps disagree?
 
Yes. I feel you are stupid as well.



:p

Seriously, I see no need to bash a graphic, and I'm glad you found parametrics.
 
No reason to feel stupid; the graphic EQ has a place, but it is not nearly as customizeable as a parametric EQ. The Parametric EQ would be limited in certain situatiuons where the graphic would shine. They are different functions for different situations.
 
the principal problem with a graphic is in the nature of the filters... they introduce phase issues and since you've got a bunch of them overlapping... well there it is...
 
boingoman said:
Any two eqs that output the same curve will have the same phase shift.
Click to expand...

might be interesting to get an answer from an actual advanced EE type guy ... but i'm not so sure that's true... the different types of filters (chebychev etc...) have differing amounts of phase shift... so while you might think it's the same... you'ld have to look at what it does to side bands for instance to be sure... any EE's in da house???
 
To say that a Mackie eq and a Neve eq have the same amount of phase shift is...........well...........crazy talk. :)

Also, almost any decent quality eq with a center detent on the "gain" will be in bypass when that band is at 0 (no cut or boost).

As stated earlier, each eq is great for certain applications. Each is tailored for the demands of the job it was designed for.

A graphic eq:

Best uses - anytime you need a LOT of bands to adjust. Usually for live sound applications where you are trying to adjust the sound system to sound good in a room. Excellent for removing hot frequencies that will cause feedback.

pro's - Lots of bands that you can cut/boost. Very visually oriented. Logical layout. Ease of use!

con's - Not good for isolating and removing a specific frequency because generally the bandwidth is too wide. Does not work so well as a high/low shelf. Not as easy to adjust for generally wide cut/boost.

Parametric eq:

Good uses: In the studio! On individual instruments in the mix either studio or live. As a notch filter on a sound system (there used to be some very good graphic eq's that would have 1-3 bands of parametric included. These were usually called "notch filters". These were great for getting rid of a bit of ring at the crossover points of the sound system, as these points are usually problematic, and a graphic eq is too brute force to deal with it effectively.)

pro's - VERY precise control. Ability to control bandwidth. Generally will also have low/high shelf filters.

con's - Lack of bands (thus, why they are seldom used for sound system tuning). Not as easy to use. Lack of visual feedback on the eq "curve".
 
It's complicated... you usually speak of signals in two domains; Amplitude and time... With EQ you're actually dealing with two time domains in addition to the amplitude... the cycles per second that create the audio frequency... and their relative space in time in the signal...

Simply put... any time you process a signal you delay it... with EQ, where you're processing only a small section of the spectrum being processed... you're delaying only that band of the entire "sound". This delay introduces a slightly out of phase condition which can be additive or subtractive to the frequncies sharing the same bandwith as the equalized signal...

Clear as mud?
 
MOFO Pro said:
Simply put... any time you process a signal you delay it... with EQ, where you're processing only a small section of the spectrum being processed... you're delaying only that band of the entire "sound". This delay introduces a slightly out of phase condition which can be additive or subtractive to the frequncies sharing the same bandwith as the equalized signal...

Clear as mud?
Click to expand...

There also exist equalizers with linear phase, like voxengo CurveEQ. These should not introduce any phase delays.
 
kubeek said:
There also exist equalizers with linear phase, like voxengo CurveEQ. These should not introduce any phase delays.
Click to expand...

Almost right. Linear phase introduces the same phase change at every frequency, as opposed to others where phase shift depends on frequency.
 
boingoman said:
Almost right. Linear phase introduces the same phase change at every frequency, as opposed to others where phase shift depends on frequency.
Click to expand...
Which can still contribute to phase issues... especially when stereo micing with a matched pair
 
MOFO Pro said:
Which can still contribute to phase issues... especially when stereo micing with a matched pair
Click to expand...

Don´t we use matched everything with matched pairs? I think that using the same EQ with same phase change on both channels won´t make phase issues.
 
Also, aren't ya'll talking about EQ plug ins? What us about folks who use all analog stuff ...... do those EQs also add a delay to that freq?
I'm not positive but I don't think they do since it's using filters as opposed to processing.
But I'm asking 'cause I'm not sure so someone fill me in.
 
Analog-domain EQ shifts phase also, so this all is for analog users too.
And there also exist linear-phase EQs in analog.
 
antispatula said:
Then a little bit ago a friend gave me Sonar 5.... But when installing it, it also installed a bunch of new plugins. One of them was a nice little parametric eq.
Click to expand...

When I first got into recording a few years ago, i mixed my tracks outofthebox in Berri's digital mixer. I did that for a very short time until I decided on mixing in SONAR. I experienced a similar reaction with SONAR's EQ over the berri's, it's absolutely incredible how different EQ's can sound.

Now compare your old graphic EQs' to some of WAVEs' etc. etc.
 
Phase shift isn't a bad thing, folks. Any of your favorite recordings have eq-induced phase shift all over them.
 
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