Focusrite ISA220 vs. PreSonus MP20

mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
People,

Was looking to add a couple of Rode mics (NT-1 or 1A) to my project studio; & then began to think about also moving up in preamp quality, as well.

In looking over two choices, the Focusrite ISA220 & the PreSonus MP20, the Noise Floor specs are a bit tough to compare, for me.

The MP20 has 3 specs:

Noise Floor @ Bus = -90.2dBu
Noise Floor @ Main Output = -96.4dBu
Noise Floor @ Channel Output = -88.2dBu @ +24dB gain

The ISA220's specs are:

123dB EIN w/ 50 ohm input resistance at 60dB of gain
THD: 0.0008%

(& I noticed no reference to EIN or THD w/ the PreSonus.)

A review in EM from 1999 (which compared the MP20 to a "well regarded British preamp"), gave very high marks to the PreSonus; & comparatively; stated that:
"the MP20 sounded nearly identical, with an ever-so-slightly brighter top end and not quite as much warmth in the low mids. Impressively, the MP20 was also quieter than the other famous preamp"
Click to expand...
So, my questions are:

Does anyone have any comparative experience with these two manufacturers/products (& I understand the Focusrite has other capabilities)...(or would someone have another recommendation)?

&...What should I be looking for in terms of quality...how do the above specs compare...are Xformer based units better than Xsistor based units, etc., etc.?

Thanks very much,

mark4man
 
Follow-Up...

I've ran across another unit...

the A.R.T. MPA Gold; &...realizing how much I like tube based pre amplification, took a look at the specs:

EIN -133dBu (XLR to XLR ‘A’ weighted)
Maximum Output Level +28dBu (XLR)
Dynamic Range >100dB (20Hz to 20kHz)
Total Harmonic Distortion >0.005% (typical)
Variable Input Impedance
Selectable Tube Plate Voltage
Tube Circuit = Differential (providing 300V power supply equivalency @ High Voltage setting.)

It's quiet, w/ low distortion & plenty of headroom; & it's a tube pre!

So I was hoping to run this unit by some of the audiophyles/engineers here for feedback on sonic quality, performance, etc., since it looks like this is the replacement for the Pro MPA (which has been found in at least a few studios over the years, I believe)...

& also, I had a question concerning the seemingly not so dynamic, dynamic range of the unit (>100dB.) Is this due to the tube circuitry? Why so much better on Xformer & solid state units?

Thanks very much,

mark4man


BTW - noiseportrait...Thanks, man. Checked out those units...really like the A.R.T., tho.
 
I just sold my Pro MPA. It was a nice unit, but I decided that a modded Dual MP for 1/2 the price was good enough for me.

Anyway, yeah I liked it, it was quiet, but the total gain is not as good as ART says as the last +10dB of tube gain is unusable, not due to noise, but excessive tube 'character'.

I also own the MP20, that's +60dB of clean gain, that's nice unit. Very different than the ART in terms of character--the ART had a nice warm tone, an OK clean tone but without much clean gain--+40dB, tops (30 IC and 10 of clean tube). Whereas the MP20 is clean all the way up, but it's 'character' control, the IDSS knob, is total garbage (but can be conveniently left off).
 
mshilarious,

Thanks very much. Very useful info, all the way around.

The only thing that scares me about the MP20 is the fact that it's solid state. I have that leftover analog attitude from old days...& I still hear engineers complain that solid state gear has an "edgy" sound.

I also ran across some great reviews of M-Audio's Tampa...with it's Temporal Harmonic Alignment technology...which supposedly adds a tube like natural harmonic sweet spot to the entire spectrum.

But, man...the more options I run across the more difficult it is to make a decision. I'll tell you what I'm going to be boosting...vocals; & a sound (synth) module...that's it. I need to come up with a choice based on those.

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
A very large portion (possibly more than half) of the most widely respected gear out there is solid state. The funny thing is that when I want an "edgy" sound, I would go to a nice tube preamp. If the engineers you are talking to are really saying these things, you really should find some other engineers to learn from.
 
Well solid state is analog . . . but I know what you mean. I think it just comes down to quality of components; solid state distortion isn't musical whereas tube distortion often is.

That M-Audio feature sounds a lot like the IDSS on the MP20, which as I already stated sounds like crap. I'm not judging the M-Audio; their execution could be much better, but I'd definitely want to hear that feature before I was sold on it.

In your case with synth I'd lean towards the ART as I don't think the MP20 will help you there much. You won't need much gain either, so again I think the ART should do just fine. Be aware that the ART also has two solid state gain stages, but you can just use the tube control for most or all of your gain if that's a concern.
 
ms,

One more question; & then I'll bug off (I & have appreciated the help...believe me.)

The A.R.T....

How did it sound?

And...on the gain...do you think it has enough to get me to near full scale with a good quality large diaphragm studio mic (going into a PC DAW)?

Thanks much,

mark4man
 
Your original post is about the Focusrite ISA 220 and the Presonus M20. If you were considering the Focusrite, then Budget must not be too big an issue. Personally, for the majority of things, the Focusrite ISA 220 will sound much better and be far more useful than all of the other preamps mentioned in this post. Of course, it will also cost more. The only I reason I say that is because you spec'd it in the original post.
 
mark4man said:
ms,The A.R.T....

How did it sound?

And...on the gain...do you think it has enough to get me to near full scale with a good quality large diaphragm studio mic (going into a PC DAW)?
Click to expand...

I liked the sound, it had a warm, comfy tone that wasn't bright. Not a lot of detail, but not muddy; no problems with noise. That was pretty much what I wanted from a tube pre. You can get a LOT of overtones if you crank the tube gain, which can be nice on guitars. It could be an interesting effect on synth patches too. The quality of the overtones I found to be very dependent on the tube used, and I had better luck with trying vintage tubes rather than the stock tubes, although the stock tubes in the MPA were OK (the stock tubes in the Dual MP sucked).

Regarding gain on LD mics, yes for condensers, but maybe not for dynamics. LDCs don't usually need much gain.

xstatic said:
Personally, for the majority of things, the Focusrite ISA 220 will sound much better and be far more useful than all of the other preamps mentioned in this post.
Click to expand...

I'd expect that to be true, the Focusrite is $1500 for a single channel . . . I guess you should define your budget here.
 
mshilarious said:
Well solid state is analog . . . but I know what you mean. I think it just comes down to quality of components; solid state distortion isn't musical whereas tube distortion often is.
Click to expand...


Just about any so-called tube gear in the budget range you're describing IS actually just solid state with a tube stuck in it it somewhere. The manufacturers do that so that they can market it it to guys like you who think they have to have tubes. :D It's actually kind of clever on their part . . . but unfortunately, you'll get the same solid state distortion you will with anything else when you drive it, and it ain't pretty.

Most real tube mic pres, for example, will start out at around $1 K.

If you don't have that to spend, then your best bet would be to just pick up the best mic pre you can afford, given what you have. The good news is that there are a lot of good-sounding ones that can be had pretty inexpensively. And as long as you don't drive them to clipping, :D they can do an outstanding job.

In your price range, I'd have a look at the RNP by FMR Audio. A less expensive option might be the M-Audio DMP-3 or the Rane MS-1B. Any one of those options would probably sound better and cost you less than any of the ART or Presonus stuff. The Tampa might be nice if you need the opto-compressor or the built-in A/D converter. Otherwise, it might be a waste.
 
Crew,

Took a half day off of work; & drove to New York City. My intent was to check out a number of different preamps & mics at B & H PhotoVideo. Came out of the Lincoln Tunnel, drove around Manhattan for an hour looking for parking (& shaking my head in amazement at the strange looking inhabitants)...got back in the Lincoln Tunnel; & wound up back in my home area at my favorite Guitar Center.

I checked out several of their stock preamps/trackers; & wound up with the Focusrite TwinTrak Pro. Really felt like the best choice right now, balancing tracking needs with quality. The pres are transistor-based...but they're also award-winning Class-A discrete. Looks like a real nice optical compressor on board; & I like the ability to "twin" the channels as a stereo pair...which should work wonders for recording my synths.

I had also intended to purchase a Rode NT-1A...but would up with a Groove Tubes GT55. Got sold on the FET design & the Disk Resonator on the diaphragm...[to extend the highs (as opposed to mid/low cut; & boost design.)] (Interesting story behind Groove Tubes. The GT mic line was engineered by Aspen Pittman, who eventually sold to Alesis; & then regained the rights prior to Alesis' bankruptcy...& now partners with M-Audio.)

Anyway...stories aside...can't wait to break this gear out of the boxes & get going.

Thanks for everyone's input; & I'll report back on quality & performance.

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
Were you able to try out all the pre-amps you had questions on before deciding on the TwinTrak Pro? How do you like it after a month? I've been reading good things about the Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster Pro (new version of the Platinum Voicemaster), the HHB Radius 40 (also released as the TL Audio 5051), and the Aphex 207. Anyone have any experience with these?

thanks
 
I was able to shootout an MP20 against a few other pres recently including the Safe Sound Audio P1 and the MP20 was surprisingly sucky in comparison to Safe Sound, Sytek, Amek and others. It really wasn't that great, pretty much ranked bottom.

I don't consider the MP20 to be much of a step up at all from a low end mixer's preamps based on what we heard. "eBay" was mentioned in the same sentence as "I'm surprised how shitty that sounds" by the MP20's owner, when able to compare it to just about anything else.

War
 
My dad owns a Focusrite ISA220, it's very nice. almost has the ability (of course also when miced up well and in a good room) to make anything sound clear, warm and sweet. There is some silly issue where it doesnt remember settings or something, which is resolved in the version above.
 
I had a Digital MPA about a year ago, but brought it back. For the price, the Focusrite platinum series sounds way better to my ears. (Especially with a tube mic). Having said that, I would go with something like a Grace, or one of the other suggestions already noted if you want to see a significant improvement. Specs are great on paper, and that's about it as far as I'm concerned. I bought the ART because of the specs ... but didn't like the tonal quality it was giving me ... so I returned it. That's just me though ...
 
I have to start reading ALL the posts on these threads! I see you got the Twin Trak Pro. I'm very curious to know what you think - I've also been looking at one. Let us know ...
 
I use an ISA110 often, and though I wasnt part of this thread, I'd like to say that all of the other pres mentioned aren't in the same league as the ISA series pres from Focusrite. Just so you know ;)

H2H
 
Moral of the story is that the preamp market is fairly efficient, meaning that you get what you pay for. Re: Warhead's shootout, all those 1999 reviews of the MP20 were based on the unit with Jensen transformers. Any comment I've made on the unit is based on a 1999 model.
 
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