Compression - What is it and why do I need it?

dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
Well now I own a Delta 1010 sound card, and Cakewalk Pro Suite, and a Mackie mixer, and Event 2020bas monitors, and mics and cables and ... So after spending both of my children's college money (they dun need no stinkin' college), why do I need a compressor?

If I understand right (dubious proposition), it will knock down the peaks and allow me to raise the floor and give me better dynamic range. Just don't understand why I need to do that - particularly since I'm recording just acoustic guitar and vocals - nothing very loud.

I've heard numerous raves about compression on this board, so obviously I'm missing the point.

Also, assuming I can be convinced it's needed, can I use the software compression in Cakewalk - or do I need hardware?

And.. (I'm afraid I know the answer to this one) if I'm simultaneously multi-tracking, do I need a compressor on each channel? (There goes my daughter's wedding.)
 
well maybe if u make a trillion bucks of the studio they can go to college after all... but seriously if your happy with the volume of your mixes and there not jumping round like kids on red cordial then i dont really think compressions going to help u a great deal. I always believe that if u dont need to use it , then dont. Cos ive heard a few mixes that are totally lifeless cos of too much compression. But what ive found the compressor will do is exactly like what you said , well there abouts anyway. So lets use the accoustic as an example.. Do u play any songs where you tend to get carried away playing the chorus (cos it just rocks!) and that part might peak in only small parts ..? well instead of turning that whole part of the mix (the guit. chorus) down u could just use a compressor to just bring down those peaks. If you ever look at a comercial cd on a wave editor (not all mind u) they are usually pretty much at the max volume they can be , this was achieved through the use of compression (and good mixing of course), multiband compression in the mastering stage and many other factors of course. But basically i think if u dont feel the need to use it, dont! , it must be the most misused piece of equipment in the studio. Those plugin type compressors are fine , i have two rackmount dbx compressors for when im recording drums , i compress the snare and kick a little to tape and hopefully i get it right , if a little more is needed then ill use the plugins. But its always good to have it in front of u i think . But hey thats just my opinion... well hope u decide if its for u ... ask some of the pros on here , they'll give you a bit more reliable info , good luck...

[Edited by Spider on 09-27-2000 at 01:40]
 
Compression reduces dynamic peaks, which enables you to do two useful things, one when you're recording and one later in the mix.

When you record, you want the signal as strong as you can get it without clipping and distorting. Which of course makes it really easy to clip because you're right up close to the line - a bit of enthusiasm at some point, like Spider says, and you've blown it. A compressor rounds off those dynamic peaks, enhancing your chances of recording without clipping. But if you don't clip when you record, then you don't need a compressor. Like Spider said. :) Compression when you record requires outboard compression, I think.

Later on, after you've mixed your tracks the way you like them, it's common to apply some compression - by reducing those dynamic peaks, it enables you to boost the overall loudness of your material, so your finished product will sound more like the very loud CDs we get these days. But if you don't care if your stuff sounds as loud as commercial stuff, then there's much less need for compression of this sort. :) This kind of compressing can be done with software.

Okay, Ed, how's that? Do I pass the test? :D
 
You don't *need* compression... you only want to use it if a particular track's dynamics are uneven and you want to smooth them out. It's not a given that you insert a compressor into every track on mix-down. During recording, you can use it improve s/n of the track *if necessary* (ie, erratic snare or kick drum, clean guitar volumes, bass) - if using it during recording you'd be wise to be minimalist about it - if you overdo it, it can't be undone later. You can always add more compression another time.

Sonusman gave you a good link which explains things much more clearly and in greater detail than I... check it out.

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Thanks for all the help guys. Once again you have helped in my never-ending quest for knowledge. Also, thanks for the web article, Sonusman.

Now you have me thinking in another direction. You are right that most of my tracks don't need compression - so I'm wondering if maybe I'm not tracking "hot" enough. I run Shure 57 and 58 mics into a Mackie mixer, and then take the direct outs from the mixer into my sound card. I set the trim knobs on the mixer in accordance with Mackie's instructions, and I'm running the faders about halfway ABOVE Unity gain and the maximum setting (in other words, fairly high).

Am I right that the only thing that controls the recording volume level is the trim and fader in the mixer?

I realize I'm not Robert Plant when I sing, but I'm getting a fairly wimpy wave (even when eating the mic). Do you think I should take the faders even higher? (The meters in Cakewalk peak at around -6db when recording.) Any suggestions?
 
Forget your meters... if it sounds good, then it *is* good...

'course, if it sounds bad, then we have a problem! I can't comment from a soundcard perspective (I don't use one), but if you set your gain/levels properly on your mixer (which it sounds like you did), then it must be a problem with a gain stage somewhere after it gets into the soundcard...

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
The difference between you and Robert Plant is....

A NEVE preamp! :)

It was rumored that Robert Plant used a SM-57 in the studio, but I cannot verify that.

While the Mackie preamps are quiet, and sound okay, they do not compare in any way to the preamps used in many big time recordings you hear, even older ones. NEVE really is, and has been, an industry standard. There are many other fine sounding Class A Discreet preamps on the market too. Let me tell you, the difference between one of them and a Mackie pre is noticeable to my ears, even though Mackie likes to pay people to say their crap sound just as good as a Focusrite Red, or a Millenium Media, or a Manley, or a Summit, or a Telefunken, or a API, or a etc....(name a class A mic pre here).

Now, more the issue here then your preamp is your mic. You just are not going to get big fat sound on tape for a voice with a SM-57 or 58 like you would with even a AT 4033, or even (shudder!) a NT1. A large diaphram condensor mic will deliver a noticeably hotter signal and bigger sound to tape (or the A/D converters) through any preamp then a 57 or 58 will. The difference is plainly noticeable!

Get a mic that is more suitable for recording vocals and you will get a much better sound to tape.

Ed
 
notiecably larger sound

I just wanted to agree with sonusman there.

When I record with my dynamic mics, I have to turn the gain on my preamp ALL the way up and still the mic does not pickup more than about three or four feet of my vocals.

When I use my condenser though, I have to the gain almost all the way down and if I even turn it half way up, I can pick up the slightest sounds from the next room.
 
Setting the volume on your Mackie is only half the story. Keep an eye on your Cakewalk mixer, and your Delta mixer to make sure you are geeting the hottest signal possible without making toast. Become more familiar with the other half of the equation - your virtual mixer(s).
 
Bball

Maybe I'm confused (certainly not the first time), but I thought the recording level was entirely controlled by the input source (i.e, your preamp or mixer).

Seems I can do anything I want with the Cakewalk mixer and the recording level never changes. That mixer appears to only have control over the playback volume (although you can use it to MONITOR the recording level).

Same thing with my soundcard mixer. It's got these neat virtual meters, and I can take the faders next to them all the way up and all the way back down, and the meter signal never changes.

The only way I've been able to set levels is to watch the meters in the software while adjusting the faders on my Mackie. Nothing else seems to have any effect on the incoming signal.
 
"The only way I've been able to set levels is to watch the meters in the software
while adjusting the faders on my Mackie. Nothing else seems to have any effect on
the incoming signal."

Me too, although I've got different gear than you. Maybe that's what bball jones meant - monitoring in the software and adjusting the hardware.

But maybe there's a difference in different soundcards. I've got a Wave/824, and there's no mixer built into it. Maybe other cards have mixers, ie, ability to control things like tracking level and EQ through the software.
 
Now were are going somewhere

dachay2tnr -

From your most recent reply it sounds like you are doing everything right. If you are monitoring in the CW mixer and your input level is set to optimum (damn near peak), you should be laying down some fat juicy waves.

It does, however, seem peculiar to me that none of your software mixers respond to the actual recording level.

Oh well, maybe I've just gone bonkers. But I have always thought that the CW mixer fader, of an armed track, will effect the input level. If not, I have just learned something.

The input meters I use are provided by a prodif plus soundcard, to adjust them, I use my hardware.
 
"But I have always thought that the CW mixer fader, of an armed track, will effect the input level."

Jonesy - That's what I thought too when I first got the Cakewalk program (seems logical doesn't it). However, having a track armed, I moved the CW fader all the way down, and the signal didn't change a bit. So I went, "AHA!", then the signal must be controlled by the software mixer that came with my Delta 1010 sound card. No cigar. Same thing. You can meter the recording signal, but no control.

Only the hardware faders on the Mackie had any effect on the signal strength.
 
Caught napping

Yes dachay2tnr-

Pardon me while I get my foot out of my mouth....

You are absolutely right. Having just perfromed almost the same exact test as yourself - I have come to the same conclusion. It seems the only way to control the input recording level is from the outboard mixer. Software mixer can be used to monitor input level but not to adjust said level.

I stand corrected.
 
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