Compact Digital Mixers - Presonus 16.0.2 / etc

J

joms

New member
I was looking for a compact mixer (below 16x16 inches) and someone pointed me to try looking into Digital mixers specifically the Presonus 16.0.2. That thing looks amazing on paper! It has almost everything that I want (EQ/compressor/Effects/Gate/Limiter/etc).

I only wish it had a)inserts b)subgroups c)USB d) SD Card to record songs and e)Feedback eliminator (for a last resort thing).

Anyway, my questions are:

1) How would you rank Presonus as a mixer? Is it within the same league as Allen& Heath? Soundcraft? or with Behringer, Mackie, etc? If possible can you rank them for me from 1 as being the best.

2) Has anyone here used the Presonus 16.0.2? Can you comment on the quality of its pre-amp and effects? Is it better than the Zed-10fx (currently using this)?

3) What other digital mixers are out there that are within 16x16 inches that can compete with the Presonus 16.0.2?

Thanks
 
Well, first off, 16 x 16 inches is a weird size and you won't find too many mixers working to that. Other than super compact stuff, there are lots of mixers working to a maximum width of 19 inches to fit into or on top of a 19 inch rack. Sixteen inches will be luck of the draw.

I tried out the Presonus when looking for a digital mixer and ruled it out. The lack of motorised faders was a total deal breaker for me. I use my mixer for live stuff as well as in the studio and scene recalls are a big deal for me. However, even in the studio I use one layer for direct outs for tracking and a second layer for DAW outputs for mixing. I also use a feature where I can switch Aux sends to faders to make setting headphone or monitor mixes a dawdle. The need to use "FAT channels" and manually reset fader levels loses what, for me, is a major feature of digital mixers.

On your other questions, no, the Presonus is not in the same league as digital offerings from Allen & Heath, Soundcraft, Yamaha, etc. but the cheap price reflects this. Even the newer Behringer digital stuff is now better (but, since they bought Midas, Behringer digital has made a huge jump in quality). I can't speak for Mackie or Tascam digital as I've not tried them--my only Mackie experience was the Digital 8 around 15 years ago and it was a pile of s**t so bad that Mackie paid people to return them. I'm sure they're much better now.

Pre amp wise the Presonus sounded okay to me--nothing special and not in the A&H league but nothing overly bad either.

Their effects were also okay but, again, not as good as things like your Zed 10.

Finally, I'm not sure what mixers are only 16 inches wide since, as noted above, 19 inches is a much more common break point. In quality terms, the Presonus is not in the same league as things like A&H, Soundcraft and Yamaha...but the price reflects this so it probably represents value for the (low) money if you can work within the more limited feature set.
 
I have to disagree with Bobbsy. I will admit though that he damn sure knows more than I do.

I have the A&H ZED10FX and I also have the Presonus 16.0.2. The lack of motorized faders is a big deal, but getting to knock $1k off the price tag is too. As for the preamps in the presonus I have had no issues. They are quiet and IMO don't color the sound much. I feel like the A&H preamps definitely sound "warmer" but you don't always want warmer. I love the software that comes with the presonus (studio one) and upgrade it to the "producer" version for $99 (so I can use 3rd party plugins and do MP3 imports).

I can't comment on the other brands listed as my experience has been very limited. Going from the ZED10 to the 16.0.2 was a HUGE jump for me. I feel like it was a very significant upgrade and I am glad I got it. As far as the effects go, I really didn't care for the ones included on the ZED10 and have found the ones on the presonus a little easier to use and understand. I love the option for the gate and compressor on the presonus.

Just my opinion though, and know that it's an opinion of someone very new to home recording so take it for what it's worth.
 
Actually, Polarity, I don't think we disagree all that much.

I don't have any issues with the Presonus pre amps either--quiet enough and no obvious colouration--but neither do I see them as anything special. I personally prefer the A&H ones (both the Zed series and their digital offerings) but there's nothing wrong with the Presonus--just nothing special either.

I also agree that a major advantage of pretty well any digital mixer is the compression and gate on every input--though I have to say I use this almost exclusively on live work and rarely in the studio. On that, the Presonus beats any analogue mixer I know. However, on the other effects--and we're talking mainly reverbs here--I think the A&H has a nicer, more musical sound. The Presonus 'verbs always sound a bit metallic to me (but I'm fussy about reverbs--there's not many I like).

Anyhow, as I said, the Presonus is probably okay value for the money. It's a big jump in terms of features from most analogue boards but the first question was "is it in the same league as A&H, Soundcraft, etc" and to that, the answer has to be "no". Subjectively, it doesn't sound as good to me (but note that's all down to personal taste, not a scientific assessment) and it lacks some of the features that I consider "biggies" on the transition to digital.

Frankly, you also need to think about your workflow. Do you do live stuff or just studio...and, if all studio, will you ever use the effects in the mixer as opposed to the ITB ones? That'll be, in part, a determining factor about whether digital is better for you.

Whether it can be considered an upgrade depends on what you're looking for. It's cheaper than the "big boys" for a reason.
 
thanks for the replies. point taken.

Given that it is not in the same league as the A&H, do you think the presonus will still be good enough for our weekend karaoke sessions and sometime in the future recording our sessions and maybe some guitar playing? (all for fun)

I might just regret changing my Zed10fx for the presonus since you said the preamp and effects are better. I do like the EQ/compression and recording capabilities of the presonus as well as the IPAD control ! Would I even notice the pre-amp/effects quality that i will lose from moving from A&H to presonus if this will only be used for karaoke or fun recordings (acoustic guitar + vocals at an untreated living room)
 
For Karaoke it'd do the job fine and might even be overkill. Same with "simple recordings".

Only you can decide if you NEED digital or whether this is a case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome.

(And, lest you think that was a dig, my first venture into digital about ten years ago was definitely G.A.S. However, as so often happens, my "needs" grew to fit the facilities on offer.)

My only problem is, the local venue where I freelance occasionally has a Midas Pro6 now. After mixing on that I won't be happy with anything else--but I can't quite stretch to the $150,000 price tag! :(
 
Agreed Bobbsy, although I have found on the presonus using a combination of reverb (both the FXA & FXB) using a small room and a natural reverb setting you get a pretty good sound. Or one that is good enough for me anyway.

I am positive you are right on it not being the same league as the big boys but for my ears it is definitely a step up from the ZED10FX. Although that is going from analog to digital, 4 pre's to 12, and a whole host of other things so it's not a fair comparison. I would guess if you stacked it against the A&H 16 channel digital (if they have one) that the A&H would come out on top.

If you can keep both that is always nice. Since the 16 channel presonus only has 12 preamps I just plan on hooking the 4 channels in my A&H into those 4 channels on the presonus and then I will have 4 "colored" channels and 12 regular. I like my voice better on the A&H it just sounds so much..... warmer? fuller? I don't really know the word to describe it but it sounds better. On my guitar though I like the sound of the presonus because my acoustic really seems to be very bassy, on the A&H it sounds that much deeper?

I really don't have the knowledge or know how to explain it much better. Good luck with both, honestly I think they are both great boards and I'm glad I got to hang on to both. I do really love the ability to have different mics hooked up in different parts of my studio (ok my very small recording room) and all running to their own channels. Hitting record and not needing to swap cables, move things around. Also I HATED the 2 channel only from the A&H.
 
I believe that is what we call "first world problems" hahah =)... I have to admit even if I don't know what to do with it, I'd love to have access to that level of gear just to try and hear (and feel) the difference it can make.

Bobbsy said:
For Karaoke it'd do the job fine and might even be overkill. Same with "simple recordings".

Only you can decide if you NEED digital or whether this is a case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome.

(And, lest you think that was a dig, my first venture into digital about ten years ago was definitely G.A.S. However, as so often happens, my "needs" grew to fit the facilities on offer.)

My only problem is, the local venue where I freelance occasionally has a Midas Pro6 now. After mixing on that I won't be happy with anything else--but I can't quite stretch to the $150,000 price tag! :(
Click to expand...
 
I attended a shootout of all the digital boards under $10k. I chose the behringer because it is the most complete for the least money. The soundcraft was probably a better board, but they didn't have the config software and a few other things ironed out yet...it seemed like it was rushed to market, and I was afraid that there were other things that weren't quite right that I didn't notice. The AH was twice the price, for no apparent reason and the Yamaha was three times the price...and not as intuitive, if you aren't used to Yamaha boards.
 
Yeah. If I was buying a new digital board these days, despite my Midas aspirations it would almost certainly be an x32. The only reason I didn't push it for the OP was that he specifically wants something compact and the x32 is too large, both physically and in facilities. I don't know what the planned smaller versions will be like but the reliance on an iPad would worry me a bit.

Which model Soundcraft were you testing...I assume one of the Si series. They seem to have a habit of rushing stuff out in software terms. I had a day's course on the Vi6 when it first came out and, although I loved the interface, even at the Soundcraft headquarters it crashed a couple of times. The problems were sorted out fairly soon but the damage was done to the Vi6's reputation and it never took off in a big way.

It's hard for me to evaluate the intuitiveness of the Yamahas--i've been using various models since the 01V so the Yammy way of doing things comes second nature to me. FYI, it's changing now but for many years, Yamaha's were the workhorse digital mixer in TV, pro project studios and for a lot of live stuff--meaning there was a huge base of trained operators.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the x32 has put the cat amongst the pigeon in terms of digital mixer pricing. Yes, the A&H and Soundcraft (and even Yamaha) are better but not 2 or 3 times better. Mind you, we have the same discussions about microphones I guess.
 
Ummm. May I ask something about the presonus 16.0.2.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think it doesn't have a meter. How then does one set the mic gain? How would you know if it is clipping already?
 
It has meters. On the left hand side you have 4 buttons for meters. Input, Output, GR, Locate

if you hit the input button you will see all the input levels shown in the fat channel.
 
Thanks for all the replies again but I'm now trying to figure out something.

I've tried reading the manual but i got overwhelmed with all the data. I know that what I need is somehow possible but can you double check for me if it really is before I bite the bullet and purchase this thing (if ever).

What I want to happen is this:

Karaoke player to input of mixer (RCA via stereo channels 13/14 of 16.0.2)
Mic 1 to input channel 1 of mixer (XLR)
Mic 2 to input channel 2 of mixer (XLR)

Mixer ---> sends all music only (no vocals) to my home theater system via my home theater amp RCA input
Mixer ----> sends vocals only to my QSC K10 powered speakers (however, I want it to have the option to include the music with the vocals with a push of a button)
Mixer ---> send a master mix signal to my Tascam DR100MKII recorder to record our session (is this a good way to record or is it better to record via firewire to a laptop?)


Is this possible? If so, how do i set it up?
 
Just wanna chime in with my vote for the Behringer X32 console or any of the the smaller ones within that family. ;)
 
joms said:
Is this possible? If so, how do i set it up?
Click to expand...

You can do this six different ways with the Presonus (at least). Easiest would be music to Sub1/2, vocals to Sub3/4. You could take a digital out to your recorder, or record to a laptop via firewire, or run audio out of the Mains to your recorder.

The Presonus is a great mixer. Sounds great. Functions great. It's way way overkill for Karaoke.

In fact, why do you even NEED a mixer? Run a tape monitor out from the home theater to your Tascam, run a line out from the K10's to your Tascam and your done? If you really need effects, get one of those TC Helicon stomp boxes for cheap and be done with it.
 
Yeah I understand that its way overkill for a karaoke but hey, I love singing and I have some extra money then why not? Also, 2x of us are studying guitar right now and 1x is studying keyboards. One of these days, we will be able to use a lot more out of the mixer and by then, i'd be able to understand more of the functions of the 16.0.2
 
joms said:
Yeah I understand that its way overkill for a karaoke but hey, I love singing and I have some extra money then why not? Also, 2x of us are studying guitar right now and 1x is studying keyboards. One of these days, we will be able to use a lot more out of the mixer and by then, i'd be able to understand more of the functions of the 16.0.2
Click to expand...

Have you looked at all of the options with the X32 series of consoles?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top