Behringer Upgrade?

[chamelious]

Is it worth upgrading my UB series behringer mixer to a soundcraft m series? I did some research a while ago and was set on this upgrade after hearing good things about the pre's and EQ section but i've since read on here that its not worth upgrading pre's unless you spend a lot of money.

Would the money be better spent on mic's/ reverbs or something? Currently just got a couple of SM58's and the behringer, for vocals and ac guitar. Aware that i will need a better mic or two as well.

 

[gbondo9]

I just sold my beri Eurorack and upgraded to a Yamaha MG series. Its a nice little upgrade. A few more features and the pre's seem cleaner.

I've got my eye on an even bigger SC Spirit.

 

[RawDepth]

Is it worth upgrading my UB series behringer mixer to a soundcraft m series? I did some research a while ago and was set on this upgrade after hearing good things about the pre's and EQ section but i've since read on here that its not worth upgrading pre's unless you spend a lot of money.

Would the money be better spent on mic's/ reverbs or something? Currently just got a couple of SM58's and the behringer, for vocals and ac guitar. Aware that i will need a better mic or two as well.

I am not certain what your expectations are but, it may not be as big a change as you might think. Most amateurs or "lay" people would never notice much difference (if any) between preamps. On the other hand, if you are critical of every little nuance and detail of your tracks then yes, you will likely notice what seems like big differences in color, tone, and clarity.

If you listen to A/B comparisons of mic pres you can tell differences. But sometimes they are minor, and I doubt the upgrade will make your friends’ jaws drop wide open.

 

[chamelious]

So you dont think its worth it the, well one things for sure the effects in the mixer must be improvable, can you reccomend any low cost (sub £200) channel strips with stuff i will need for vocals, reverb compression etc.

 

[RawDepth]

So you dont think its worth it the, well one things for sure the effects in the mixer must be improvable, can you reccomend any low cost (sub £200) channel strips with stuff i will need for vocals, reverb compression etc.

Yes, I think it would be worth it. However, here's why...

You should not think of a new mic pre amp as an upgrade. Instead, consider it an addition to your arsenal or toolbox. Preamps are like color paints to an artist or spices to a chef. Just because you get a new one, doesn't mean you should abandon the old one. True, they will sound different, but you may still come across a singer or a guitar where the old one just sounds/works better for a certain theme. Like mics, they are all just different flavors, so-to-speak.

As a general rule, your more high-end mic pres offer more clarity but that alone doesn't always win the battle. (okay, enough analogies.)

I would never be afraid to buy any mic or mic pre. I am spending my money on buying more rack mounted and/or stand alone mic pres. I don't want to be tied to just the pres in my mixer.

 

[lumbago]

I bought a 16 channel line mixer from Behringer. You could hear a nasal quality to the tone - like there was a phase problem. I ended up gutting all the circuitry and turning it into a passive line mixer - with none of the problems of the original device - for the cost of a few dollars in solder, and cable and resistors. My synths sounded tinny through the original.

If you're recording only a couple of channels at a time, I'd recommend a channel strip (mic preamp plus basic EQ) of some sort instead of a mixer. Focusrite make some good products like the Trakmaster. Aphex and dbx also make channel strips also.

A Mackie or Soundcraft desk might be the next step up. Yamaha and Korg have some new mixers which might also appeal.

 

[dkelley]

I bought a 16 channel line mixer from Behringer. You could hear a nasal quality to the tone - like there was a phase problem.

wierd, never heard any mixer sound like that, even radio shack stuff. it's really difficult to screw up a design so badly that you get a nasal out of phase quality.... the differences in quality to exist with behringer gear but it's not night and day, it's half a dozen on one hand, 5.5 on the other. Not to dis you at all, but simply asking honestly since everyone makes mistakes once in a while, isn't it more likely that if there was such a serious tone problem with that mixer (of any brand) that it was a problem with the routing and signal flow that was actually honestly causing a phase problem? Or, the most likely cause of problems like this I've noticed is when people plug in a mic and listen with headphones and talk into the mic and hear it sounding all phasey and crappy... of course the reason why is that half the time the mic will be out of phase with the headphones and since no headphones isolate perfectly the sound is effectively 180o out of phase electronically speaking. Just a thought.

Again, not trying to say you don't know what you're doing, but we've all at one time or another made that error, it's happened to me on occasion when I've forgotten common sense physics and electronics and made an assumption about a piece of gear based on my predetermined expectations (like assuming berry mixers are crap, then you hear that and go "yup, they're crap").

Cheers,
Don

 

[MOFO Pro]

I'm generally not too fond of channel strips... any thing that does more than one thing tends to compromise on them all... segregate your amp, EQ, and compression... more control, more quality, more versitility...

No reason to pay for a compressor you don't like because it's imbedded in a channel strip that has a good pre-amp... or pay for that marginal pre-amp because the EQ is so musical...

 

[zed32]

Yes, I think it would be worth it. However, here's why...

You should not think of a new mic pre amp as an upgrade. Instead, consider it an addition to your arsenal or toolbox. Preamps are like color paints to an artist or spices to a chef. Just because you get a new one, doesn't mean you should abandon the old one.

It does if the old one is a Behringer. In your situation, however, I would seriously consider upgrading your microphone selection before dumping money on a whole new mixer just for the preamps. A better microphone will give you a more noticeable increase in sound quality. An SM58 would be far from the first microphone I would reach for when recording vocals or acoustic guitar. Great for live vocal though!

 

[dkelley]

It does if the old one is a Behringer. In your situation, however, I would seriously consider upgrading your microphone selection before dumping money on a whole new mixer just for the preamps. A better microphone will give you a more noticeable increase in sound quality. An SM58 would be far from the first microphone I would reach for when recording vocals or acoustic guitar. Great for live vocal though!

agreed about the mics first comments +1

 

[Nameless]

Is it worth upgrading my UB series behringer mixer to a soundcraft m series?

No.

I did some research a while ago and was set on this upgrade after hearing good things about the pre's and EQ section but i've since read on here that its not worth upgrading pre's unless you spend a lot of money.

Honestly, it's not. I mean, there is entry-level and there is crap. There is decent entry level stuff but it's not the cheap Behringer mixers. And I'm speaking from experience and not biased because Behringer actually has some decent stuff.

Will you hear a noticeable difference going from a Behringer to say a DMP3? Maybe very slightly. It would be worth it but it's not the first thing I would do. Would it be worth it going from a DMP3 to some other entry-level preamp? No. Not as far as 'quality' goes, unless that other preamp imposes some sort of color or flavor to the sound that you like. There aren't many good 'flavors' and 'colors' to choose from in the entry-level range.

Would the money be better spent on mic's/ reverbs or something?

Yes. Get something else. Like a good mic. If you only have $200 or so, and you want a really noticeable difference, I would just save more. At least until you get to $400, for a mic. You can get "different" sounds with mics in that range for sure, but whether or not you would be disappointed depends. I would save for at least one mic that you can use and see yourself using on vocals/guitar, whatever, for a long period of time. *That* is an upgrade. Buying a cheap mic just for 'now' is not an upgrade it's a waste of money.

 

[omtayslick]

If you can get by recording only 2 channels at a time, I would do this: For the cost of a Soundcraft M series mixer you could get a DMP3, (which in my opinion IS an upgrade from a Behringer mixer. Been there myself.) and a Shure SM81. The 81 and DMP3 combo will drastically improve your acoustic guitar sound. And the SM58 is fine for vocals, and maybe even desirable if you're recording in an untreated space. However, you didn't mention what kind of soundcard you're using. If it's not a decent recording card, that should be taken care of first.

 

[omtayslick]

Also, if you need the functionality of a mixer and want decent preamps, look into a Mackie Onyx.

 

[RawDepth]

These guys are right. If you are talking about moving from one budget mixer to another budget mixer and not changing anything else, you probably won't notice that much difference. Soundcraft makes decent stuff but the M series may be at the bottom of their food chain. I think maybe it is their entry-level budget model. Not much of a step up from where you are.

What I was trying to say earlier was that upgrading to a better "anything" is usually always worth doing. Although, I wouldn't buy a whole mixer just to get mic pres.

 

[Good Friend]

sm58

I know a guy who recorded his voice with an sm58 on his record. I dont know if i would call the sound "fantastic", but his voice sounds good and the songs sound really likable and people ask me to burn the cd for them when they hear it.

 

[tdukex]

Will you hear a noticeable difference going from a Behringer to say a DMP3? Maybe very slightly.

This statement does not describe my experience.

There is a huge difference between the DMP3 and a Behringer mixer. I know because I upgraded three years ago. The DMP3 competes with pres costing 4-times it's price. The DMP3 is warm, yet very transparent compared to the strident pres of the Behringer. The DMP3 also has far superior stereo imaging.

It is always a good idea to upgrade a Behringer preamp--before spending any money on decent mics IMO.

There is a difference between some budget gear. Some budget gear is excellent, some is so-so, some is complete crap. The DMP3 and the Behringer are on opposite ends of that spectrum.

 

[Nameless]

There is a huge difference between the DMP3 and a Behringer mixer. I know because I upgraded three years ago. The DMP3 competes with
pres costing 4-times it's price.

4 times it's price being about $400. Ok, well maybe $600. I wouldn't upgrade a DMP3 unless I wanted a more colored sound and had a $1000-$1200 budget. Seriously, it's a clean pre and there wouldn't a huge difference in a $600 clean pre and a DMP3.

The DMP3 is warm, yet very transparent

Ok...

There is not one thing about the DMP3 that I would call 'warm'. Transparent, yes, but it does not provide any WARMTH to a recording.

It is always a good idea to upgrade a Behringer preamp--before spending any money on decent mics IMO.

Maybe you were using the $30 UB802 or whatever it is called. I'd rather record over a phone. If he's using the 802 then I would agree.

I was comparing to a different Behringer mixer.

 

[dkelley]

I know a guy who recorded his voice with an sm58 on his record.

um, like Bono from U2? SM58 on record for all lead vocals.

that's what I've READ here anyway, probably true at least some times.

Personally if I were the engineer I'd give him a 58 and put a condensor just behind it so he sings into the 58 and gets recorded by, well both to be honest to him, but it would give the option of a condensor in the end if desired.

Cheers,
Don

 

[tdukex]

4 times it's price being about $400. Ok, well maybe $600. I wouldn't upgrade a DMP3 unless I wanted a more colored sound and had a $1000-$1200 budget. Seriously, it's a clean pre and there wouldn't a huge difference in a $600 clean pre and a DMP3.

Neither would I, and that's exactly what I did when I bought a Sebatron vmp2000--I went colored. I still prefer the DMP3 on solo acoustic guitar.



Ok...

There is not one thing about the DMP3 that I would call 'warm'. Transparent, yes, but it does not provide any WARMTH to a recording.

Compared to the Sebatron, no. Compared to the strident pres on Behringer, yes it is WARMER--or perhaps much less brittle.

Maybe you were using the $30 UB802 or whatever it is called. I'd rather record over a phone. If he's using the 802 then I would agree.

I was comparing to a different Behringer mixer.

I was comparing to an MX802A--an 8-channel mixer.

Don't all of the UB series have the same pres? What mixer were you using? You did a thorough comparison? What about the stereo imaging I mentioned, did you notice any difference?

Anyway, I spent considerable time comparing these two pres on vox and acou guit with dynamic, SDCs, and a multipattern tube mic. At least in my experience, between the MX802A and the DMP3 there was a world of difference. On acou guit the DMP3 also compared favorably to the Meek VC1Qcs that I had at the time.

 

[chamelious]

To be honest, i used to use a little digi 4 track, combined with an SM58, and used to get much better results vocals wise than i am now. After reading what you guys have written im thinking it might be down to the absence of/using the poor quality one in the beri compresser.

Maybe i'll get told its not worth it, if so fair enough but i just dont have the spare money (if i "save up" theres other stuff im in greater need of); Anyone reccomned a low cost compresser? It only has to be 1 channel.