Behringer ADA8000 - How to get input signal thru to the line outs (w/FS-160)?

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cmayo

New member
I imagine this has been asked, but haven't been able to turn up an answer using the search tool...

I recently picked up an old Fostex FS-160 and just purchased a Behringer ADA8000 ADAT to add an extra 8 simultaneous record channels. All is well on that front, but I was really hoping to be able to run our vocal mics into the ADA8000, then run XLR cables from the ADA8000's line outs to the FOH mixer, but I can't figure out how to get the input signals routed to the line outs.

Behringer says there's no direct connection between the analog inputs and analog outputs, and suggested running the ADA8000's optical output back into its own optical input to use the unit as a simple preamp.

I gave that a shot as a troubleshooting step and sure enough, my ADA8000 inputs were correctly routed to the ADA8000 line outs, but I need to stick my FX-160 in that loop somewhere.

So... I ran the ADA8000's optical output into the FS-160's optical input, then took the FS-160's ADAT output back into the ADA8000's input, but still don't have any signal on the ADA8000's line outputs. The FS-160's digital output is set to ADAT (as is its digital input), but the FS-160 still isn't passing the ADAT's input through to its ADAT output.

Can anyone suggest anything else I might try? I'mi absolutely clueless about the wordclock and master/slave relationship between digital units, but might a misconfiguration with the wordclock/sync prevent the FS-160 from sending the ADAT input back through it's digial output, or is that just something that's not going to work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Yo cmayo! The master-slave relationship is *not* a loop. If you send a digital signal from the Behringer to the Fostex, the Behringer is the master, and the Fostex the slave. Then you try to send the digital signal back to the Behringer, and it says, "You can't do that, *I'm* the master. This isn't an insert with a digital send and return. Somewhere, the signal has to be analog. Unfortunately, the Fostex is such an old unit, I cannot find out what it does. I also cannot figure out what you are trying to do, except that you are trying to get more channels. Got that. That may be impossible, at least the way you are trying to do it.
First, does the Fostex *really* have an ADAT input, or is it optical S/PDIF (they use the same toslink cable)? S/PDIF only transmits *2* channels, and it doesn't understand ADAT input. In order to tell you any more, first, we need to understand more about this Fostex unit, its function, and what I/O's it has. Second, we need to know where the signal is supposed to end up. Is it being recorded by the Fostex unit, or going to computer or other recording device?-Richie
 
Richard, thanks for your reply.

The Fostex has an optical in/out that can be configured for S/PDIF or ADAT. Presently it's configured for ADAT. This is a 16-track recorder with 8 on board inputs, the other 8 inputs are provided digitally via the Behringer ADA8000, and that part of the setup is working fine.

I'm using the Foxtex for live recording, and what I wanted to do was run vocal mics into the Behri ADA8000's inputs so I can record the vocalists on separate channels, but I still need to run the vocal mics to the main mixer as separate channels and thought I'd be able to just plug XLR cables into the Behri's line outs and run those to the mixer.

Again, I'm good with the recording setup. The ADAT is providing 8 channels to the Fostex and I'm recording on all 16 channels.

My problem is that I want to plug a mic into the CH 1 input of the ADA8000, then plug an XLR cable into the CH 1 line output of the ADA8000 and run that cable to the FOH mixer, but there's no signal on the CH 1 line output.
 
I've got a few ADA8000's, and I'm pretty sure they're just not wired to do what you want. The line outs take the signal presented by the ADAT in, while the line ins present to the ADAT out--but the line ins (XLRs) don't present to the line outs.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Then you try to send the digital signal back to the Behringer, and it says, "You can't do that, *I'm* the master.
Click to expand...
Sorry Rich, but that's just not accurate... the master/slave relationship between digital devices only relates to digital sync not audio path or direction. You can send digital audio from the slave to the master, and visa-versa...

But your general message is correct... the only way to get the analog signal through the device is to loop the ADAT in/out which of course precludes using the ADAT as a separate external audio path.

WhiteStrat's right, it just can't be done the way you describe...

BUT...
Why not plug the Mics into FOH and take direct outs to the Behringer then to the Fostex... there's your 16 analog channels for recording without having to live with the live mix
 
Thanks for the correction, MOFO. But yeah, the ADA8000 only puts out an analog signal if it's coming from a digital input (ADAT). Any analog input is converted to an ADAT signal, and *doesn't* go to the analog outputs. The only analog output comes from an ADAT input. MOFO's idea might work, if you can get some analog outputs from the FOH board. Good luck.-Richie
 
Well heck. Those line outs were one of the main (perceived) advantages of the ADA8000; bummer that it's not going to work the way I'd hoped.

The FOH mixer we're using doesn't support channel inserts so I can't take individual channels off the mixer.

Is there any reason I couldn't use Y-cables to split mic outputs into two inputs, one to the ADAT and one to the FOH mixer?
 
MOFO, thanks for your response.

I'm not sure what you're asking about phantom power. The FOH mixer does provide phantom power. How does that relate to splitting the mics into two inputs?

The FOH mixer doesn't provide channel inserts, but what is "one-clicking?"
 
You asked for a reason why you could use y-cables to split the mic output. That's one reason, if phantom power was engaged on one of the destinations you'd be back-feeding 48 volts into the other... if both were enabled you'd be bucking power... it's just not something I'd do on anything but an emergency basis..

You can generally get a "direct out" from a desk that doesn't provide that feature by inserting an unbalance jack "one click" into the insert on the desk.

And what brand of FOH mixer doesn't have inserts?
 
Ah, now I get why phantom power might be an issue. Great point. We're not using any condenser mics so phantom power should be disabled all around, but I'll definitely know to check before I try to split the mic inputs.

The mixer is a little Behringer 1832FX which, as far as I can tell from Behri's online documentation, doesn't provide inserts. Only the larger unit in that line, the 2442FX seems to have channel inserts.

Also a nice tip on the "one-click," thanks. I've never had a use for inserts before now so I'm not too familiar with their use, other than that the form a loop. I figured I'd need special cables to tap a signal from the inserts on my keyboard mixer but will certainly try the one-click method.

Thanks for everything!
 
You'll only need a special cable for inserting into the audio path... The one click only requires an unbalanced TS connector... and I just looked at the Behringer... it has eight inserts on the back of the desk...
 
Guess I should have read the Behringer's documentation more carefully - it does indeed have inserts on the back panel for the mono channels. That'll get me where I want to go when we're using that board.

Thanks again!
 
Ada8000

Hi there

I have a digidesign 003 and i am wanting to add two ada8000s.
Does anyone have any idea how to do this.
 
MOFO Pro said:
You asked for a reason why you could use y-cables to split the mic output. That's one reason, if phantom power was engaged on one of the destinations you'd be back-feeding 48 volts into the other... if both were enabled you'd be bucking power... it's just not something I'd do on anything but an emergency basis..

You can generally get a "direct out" from a desk that doesn't provide that feature by inserting an unbalance jack "one click" into the insert on the desk.

And what brand of FOH mixer doesn't have inserts?
Click to expand...

+1

You can transfer the ADA8000 inputs directly to the outputs by using a TOSlink jumper (regular TOSlink cable) but latency is involved. Of course, to get a simultaneous feed to the VF160, you'll need something like this:
ADAT/TOSLINK Splitter

Again, +1 for the channel inserts on your mixer. If they're set/wired pre, they have the added advantage of giving you a dry signal that is not affected by any live adjustments to the board except the input pads (which I always PFL and don't usually adjust from that point). Using the (pre-fader) insert sends, you can record and take care of your audience and bandmates at the same time.

Paj
8^)
 
there is a few ways you can do this application. it depends on if you want to record with the gain structure of your foh board.

to independently record with different gain structure than the foh board you would use a mic splitter for each channel. the phantom doesn't matter because the isolation caps are still in the circuit on the behringer weather or not the phantom power is inguaged. this is done with a splitter snake or even creating the split on a xlr patch panel. you could lift pin 1 going to the behringer as that will break the grounds. all cabling is xlr in this method.

now if you want to record with the gain structure of the board, you connect the direct out of the board to the berhinger. you would use trs to trs cabling. Professional mixing boards are the only ones that have direct outs like a Yamaha M3000 or Soundcraft Series 2 etc.
 
I don't know the Digi003 much at all, but I do use a Digi002 and an ADA8000, so here's how it works on my rig. First- sure enough, the ADA8000 isn't a mixer, and there are no inserts. It isn't a mic preamp either, exactly. It's an 8-channel analog to digital and digital to analog converter that does have built in preamps. The only way to get anything to come out of the analog outputs is to have a digital input. As suggested in passing above, you can run an optical (Toslink) cable from the ADAT out of the Behringer to the ADAT input on the Behringer, and Hola! you will get analog output! Upside- It works. Downside- you have to run the signal through a cheap A-D/D-A converter *twice*. So- if I was using 2 ADA8000's with my rig, I'd run one via Toslink cable into the ADAT input on the Digi002, and the other one into analog inputs 1-8, except--- I would use the Digi's preamps on channels 1-4, because even they are a little better than the Behringer, and it shortens the signal chain. I only use the one into the ADAT input, and outboard preamps on 4-8. If the 003 has 2 ADAT inputs, just use those. That's what I don't know. How many ADAT inputs and how many channels does the 003 support? Hoping this helps.
 
Dukeyboy,

Digi003's total input count is 18.
8 analog (4 mic 4 line on 003, 8 mic on 003+)
8 digital over adat
2 digital over s/pdif

One Ada8000 will turn your adat input into 8 mic/line inputs.
If you were to use a second ada8000 it would be to gain 8 extra analog outputs.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Dukeyboy,

Digi003's total input count is 18.
8 analog (4 mic 4 line on 003, 8 mic on 003+)
8 digital over adat
2 digital over s/pdif

One Ada8000 will turn your adat input into 8 mic/line inputs.
If you were to use a second ada8000 it would be to gain 8 extra analog outputs.
Click to expand...

Or, as I stated above-on the second 8000, you use mic input to the 8000, ADAT out to ADAT in. and analog line out to the line ins, #'s 5-8, on the Digi. The 002, at least, only has preamps on channels 1-4. Channels 5-8 are line-in only. 9-10 by SPD/IF. Channels 11-18 by ADAT. So- what the second 8000 can do is give you preamps with mic ins for channels 5-8.
 
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