BBE Sonic Maximizer : Usefullness?

promesis

promesis

Black Knights of the 4H.
What are some opinions here upon the usefullness of the BBE?

Does it simply "colorize" .. or does it really do some phase issue corrective treatments?

I have the BBE882 for balanced and the 482i for unbalanced connections.
I figured they would be useful in an arsenal of gear .. I was using the 882 on the whole mix of programme material and was going to use the 482i for inserts or in the git/bass rack gear .. maybe inline with the mic pre DI. .. whatever for unbalanced signal "coloring" where needed ..

Does anyone have any strong opinions with regard to their usefullness or experiences?

I have noticed that placing the RNC in "Real Nice Mode" in the main inserts kind of seemed to make the transients "pop out" more almost making the BBE "useless"... or sounding more "brittle".

So .. does the BBE simply make things go "bump bump and swish swish" with more fervant colorization giving the impression of "clarity".. and ..

should this unit be "on its way out" as I acquire more hi - end gear?

Or does it have a place in a project studio that is seeking to upgrade in all areas?

-thanks for your patience.
 
I don't know that I would consider it an upgrade as much as just another little tool/toy to have around for occasional use. If you already have two, you might want to consider dumping one of them and keeping the other.

I have a BBE 862 that I use very rarely but it does come in handy once in a while. I never use it on the whole mix, just a track here or there. Mostly when I want a particular track to jump out a little bit from the others, but without having to jack up the volume. It's also pretty good on vocals sometimes. One key to the BBE is to use it sparingly.
 
Thanks SA .. I appreciate your opinions, as usual.

Now, do I understand the actual controls themselves:

full counter clockwise is "flat" ... and any migration clockwise intruces the "filtering"? Or is full counter clockwise simply the lowest amount of filtration provided by the unit? Their manuals make no mention of a "flat" or pass thru signal .. so I would expect the latter to be correct. Lowest to Highest filtering not "none to some" .. though at the lowest level, it seems "flat" (or could my own "ears") .. any idea?
 
I have only used the software plug in version of the BBE, but go easy on the high end. The sizzle it gives sounds pleasing at first listen, then you quickly start hearing some harsh artifacts that often do more harm than good.
 
It is an interesting effect but you can go overboard with it very easily. I would also like the phase relationship of the things that I record to stay the way I recorded them. The sales pitch behind these things is a load of crap.
 
I've used a BBE Sonic Maximizer model 422 in my studio for many years. It can be a useful tool. It treats bass frequencies as well as highs. I prefer it to the Aphex Aural Exciter and the Alesis Micro Enhancer.

It really does make a difference, especially for narrow track formats, such as 4-track cassette. It can be over done, but so can any type of processing.

It works on a different concept than the Aural Exciter. It does in fact restore natural phase as much as desired and is variable to taste. In my experience it works as advertised by addressing a real audio phenomenon.

It won't add frequencies that aren't already in the source material like the Aural Exciter does. It simply realigns frequencies to their natural phase relationships. I use it often for various things -- It's a keeper.

-Tim
 
Beck said:
It simply realigns frequencies to their natural phase relationships.
Click to expand...

What does that mean? I've only ever tried the plug-in version. What exactly does a Sonic Maximizer do that couldn't be recreated with EQ? Has anyone ever figured it out?
:confused:
 
The BBE is not an eq, you can't recreate it with an eq. The bass emphasis thing you can simulate with an eq, but the actual BBE process itself is something different.

Here's a selection of info from the BBE web site, you can read the whole thing at: http://www.bbesound.com/technologies/BBE_HDS/

A loudspeaker's transient response is typically expressed in terms of amplitude response (how quickly it reacts to an incoming signal), with little or no regard to phase response (whether high and low frequencies are reproduced at the proper time). The ability to accurately represent a sound's phase and amplitude define the quality of a loudspeaker's transient and steady - state, or sustained, response.

If a loudspeaker's amplitude response curve were linear, then the relationship between the high and low frequencies would be correct. And if a loudspeaker's phase response curve were linear, then the low and high frequencies would reach the listener's ears in their correct time order. This would result in faithful reproduction of the sound. However, this isn't normally the case.

When we listen to live music, all of the highs and lows reach our ears in the same relationship to each other as when they were created by the instruments. If this same live music were to be recorded and played back through a loudspeaker system, the loudspeaker would introduce frequency-dependent phase shifting. The inductance of the speaker's voice coil creates a stronger impedance as the signal's frequency increases, resulting in a time delay. Consequently, frequency components with large negative phase shifts (high frequencies) arrive at the listener's ear later than signals undergoing small phase shifts (low frequencies). The resultant signal is distorted in the time domain to the listener's ear. Audio material containing sharp transients (e.g., percussive and plucked sounds such as drums, guitar, piano and harpsichord, etc.) suffers the most from this phenomenon, making it seem unfocused, or mushy.

In order to address these problems inherent in basic loudspeaker design, BBE Sound, Inc. has developed a circuit that has two primary functions. The first adjusts the phase relationships of the low, mid and high frequencies. Since a loudspeaker's natural tendency is to add progressively longer delay times to higher frequencies, the BBE sound processing system adds progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies. This creates a kind of "mirror" curve to the time delay curve created by the speaker, neutralizing its phase distortion.

The second major element in the BBE system is the augmentation of the higher and lower frequencies. Loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges. Most sound-reproducing systems include a circuit for boosting high and low frequencies, showing an accepted awareness of the loudspeaker's efficiency problem. The BBE system, however, provides a dynamic, program-driven augmentation which combines with the phase compensation feature to restore the brilliance and clarity of the original live sound. The result is, as one professional journal phrased it, "The most hearable advance in audio technology since high fidelity itself!"
 
SonicAlbert said:
The BBE is not an eq, you can't recreate it with an eq. The bass emphasis thing you can simulate with an eq, but the actual BBE process itself is something different.

Here's a selection of info from the BBE web site, you can read the whole thing at: http://www.bbesound.com/technologies/BBE_HDS/

A loudspeaker's transient response is typically expressed in terms of amplitude response (how quickly it reacts to an incoming signal), with little or no regard to phase response (whether high and low frequencies are reproduced at the proper time). The ability to accurately represent a sound's phase and amplitude define the quality of a loudspeaker's transient and steady - state, or sustained, response.

If a loudspeaker's amplitude response curve were linear, then the relationship between the high and low frequencies would be correct. And if a loudspeaker's phase response curve were linear, then the low and high frequencies would reach the listener's ears in their correct time order. This would result in faithful reproduction of the sound. However, this isn't normally the case.

When we listen to live music, all of the highs and lows reach our ears in the same relationship to each other as when they were created by the instruments. If this same live music were to be recorded and played back through a loudspeaker system, the loudspeaker would introduce frequency-dependent phase shifting. The inductance of the speaker's voice coil creates a stronger impedance as the signal's frequency increases, resulting in a time delay. Consequently, frequency components with large negative phase shifts (high frequencies) arrive at the listener's ear later than signals undergoing small phase shifts (low frequencies). The resultant signal is distorted in the time domain to the listener's ear. Audio material containing sharp transients (e.g., percussive and plucked sounds such as drums, guitar, piano and harpsichord, etc.) suffers the most from this phenomenon, making it seem unfocused, or mushy.

In order to address these problems inherent in basic loudspeaker design, BBE Sound, Inc. has developed a circuit that has two primary functions. The first adjusts the phase relationships of the low, mid and high frequencies. Since a loudspeaker's natural tendency is to add progressively longer delay times to higher frequencies, the BBE sound processing system adds progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies. This creates a kind of "mirror" curve to the time delay curve created by the speaker, neutralizing its phase distortion.

The second major element in the BBE system is the augmentation of the higher and lower frequencies. Loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges. Most sound-reproducing systems include a circuit for boosting high and low frequencies, showing an accepted awareness of the loudspeaker's efficiency problem. The BBE system, however, provides a dynamic, program-driven augmentation which combines with the phase compensation feature to restore the brilliance and clarity of the original live sound. The result is, as one professional journal phrased it, "The most hearable advance in audio technology since high fidelity itself!"
Click to expand...
Now, wouldn't the phase alignment problem be different depending on the listeners speakers. I'm sure that my Genelecs have a completly different phase 'problem' than my Urei monitors. So, if I am flipping back and forth between the 2 sets of monitors, wouldn't I need a different amount of BBE processing to make everything 'right'. Once I take it out to the car, it's a whole different ballgame there as well.
So how, as a mix engineer, can you possibly use this at the mix stage to make up for the random difficiencies of any listeners speakers?
And another thing, how do you know when the phase relationships have been properly compensated for? What sort of test equipment do you need to test for the time shift of the high frequencies? You can't use your ears because you wouldn't know if something on a recording wasn't very 'clear' sounding to begin with. If you made it clear, you have taken the process too far without realizing it.
The concept is great, but there is no way to compensate for something that you have no control over...The listeners sound system.
 
Farview said:
Now, wouldn't the phase alignment problem be different depending on the listeners speakers.
Click to expand...

According to their manual, "[They] conducted extensive studies of numerous speaker systems over a 10 year period.... While there are differences amoung various speaker designs in the magnitude of their correction, the overall pattern of correction needed is remarkedly consisient."

I think so far we all agree that it "affects" the signal with some interest. Utilizing it in an effective way - and I guess what I mean here would be - since we can't really tell the point where "corrections" are "too corrected" .. some may tell when there is a "pleasant effect" to the specific project. With the differing amounts of transients and timbre associated with each session I would assume that some will benefit from its use. i.e. with the RNC affecting the whole mix .. in RealNice Mode .. there was no benefit to using the unit.. even at minimal settings. However, when I was using the 3630's :D .. the unit was "magical". So.. I guess as you close the tolerances in your rack with better gear these products .. "sweeteners" .. become less of an ingredient to the final sound.
 
promesis said:
According to their manual, "[They] conducted extensive studies of numerous speaker systems over a 10 year period.... While there are differences amoung various speaker designs in the magnitude of their correction, the overall pattern of correction needed is remarkedly consisient."
Click to expand...
So, we still don't know the magnitude that we need to compensate for any one set of speakers. Maybe if they tested all the speakers out there and made a list. Telling us how much processing we need to compensate for each make and model of speaker. Then someone can do some demographic research to find out what types of speakers the audience of a particular genre of music has. That way we could look on the chart, and find out that if we are mixing a country album, I need to set the dial between 3 and 4.
 
SonicAlbert said:
The second major element in the BBE system is the augmentation of the higher and lower frequencies. Loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges. Most sound-reproducing systems include a circuit for boosting high and low frequencies, showing an accepted awareness of the loudspeaker's efficiency problem.
Click to expand...

I've only ever played with the plug-in version. Do any of the rackmount units that BBE produce allow you to use the phase alignment features without the frequency augmentation features occuring at the same time? And if so, is there a noticable difference to the sound?
 
modgeulator said:
I've only ever played with the plug-in version. Do any of the rackmount units that BBE produce allow you to use the phase alignment features without the frequency augmentation features occuring at the same time? And if so, is there a noticable difference to the sound?
Click to expand...
The software and hardware work exactly the same way. The phase alignment is what causes the frequency augmentation.
 
SonicAlbert said:
The BBE system, however, provides a dynamic, program-driven augmentation which combines with the phase compensation feature to restore the brilliance and clarity of the original live sound.
Click to expand...

It reads to me as if there are two seperate features that are "combined" in order to ..." restore the brilliance and clarity of the original live sound." Maybe I'm just failing to follow in some way?
 
My Sonic Maximizer was the second piece of gear I ever owned... It was recomended to to add life to the vocals on my first 424 portastudio. I can't remember how many years ago... Since then it's spent much more time hooked up to the home stereo then in the studio rack... works brilliantly there... just as designed.
 
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