-10dbv Mixer with +4dbu outboard gear: UA 2-1176

Ignatius-

New member
I've searched for a while now, and I can't find the answer to this question (maybe I just didn't do it right). I have a TASCAM M-520 mixer, which is a -10dbv board. I've been saving some money, and I found a great deal on a UA 2-1176 and I really want to get it. However, I can't determine what I am going to need to match this +4dbu piece of gear with my -10dbv mixer/other equipment. Most of the stuff I found related to DAW setups, and all of that stuff has switchable input/output levels.

Since I'm not easily going to be able to send a +4dbu signal out of my mixer (or any of my other equipment - RNC, old graphic eq's, space echo, etc.), what would you guys do to "convert" a -10dbv signal to a +4dbu signal - and back again - for (easy) use in a rack? Does that make sense/is that right? Is this going to cause problems? I've heard that this will cause more noise... Is that right? Am I missing something really obvious here?
 
Okay. That looks like it would work, but is there something that would convert it back to -10dbv? That seems like it only covers half of the process... ? I guess I would mostly be using a compressor at the end of a chain, but that would really cause volume problems if I can't get it back to -10dbv. Thoughts?
 
Apologies. I didn't realise you said "and back again".
What about something like this?
At a glance it covers four channels each way.

Here. People have talked about this mixer before.
Someone mentioned that some of the outputs are +4. Perhaps that helps a bit?

There are people around here who know that type of gear much better than me, but I'd be thinking of tailoring my gear to be all -10 if possible, (if that's what most of your stuff is already).
 
There are several brands of -10/+4 and back again boxes out there. Aphex makes ones that go both ways in one box, and they have them in stereo units or multi-channel (but they ain't cheap). EbTech also makes them.

If you keep your eyes peeled on eBay for some of the old Fostex 5030 line amp boxes....they do it too, and they are 8-channel, two-way. I have a couple of them and have used them many times. They can be had for around $100 on eBay.

Fostex 5030 | eBay

Going -10 to +4 is not a big deal, you have to just up the gain ( a pinch more noise). Going +4 to -10 is easier (AFA noise) but more dangerous, since you can easly overload a -10 piece of gear with +4 signal if it can't handle the extra kick.

The conversion boxes just make all of that safer/simpler...but you can work without them too. I interconnect both levels all the time, and I don't always use the conversion boxes....but I keep my eyes on the levels and am aware of what is what.
Also, some DAW interfaces allow for both...so you just set it in the interface. That's how my Echo Layla boxes are...-10 or +4....both on intout and output.
 
Thanks so much for the info guys! That's exactly what I needed to know. I will keep my eyes open for one of those Fostex 5030's. That sounds like it will do the trick. Also, I kind of thought what I read about the nose issue was a little overstated...Thanks again.
 
If you are going from -10 to +4....just have a nice healthy signal to begin with at the -10 side....that way, if you need to add gain to bring it up to match on the +4 side, the S/N will not be that significant.
IOW...on the -10 side...don't have very low/quiet signals...keep them up there, just watch your headroom.
 
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I generally run the levels pretty hot anyway... it's ultimately going to tape anyway. Thanks again. Just made the purchase. Can't wait to go try it out!
 
Okay, so I'm back. I see this ebay add that's up right now... Fostex Model 5030 8 Channel Line Amplifier 0200863 Clean See Photos | eBay

It looks like this is the older model Fostex 5030? Are the XLR's 3-pin hot? It looks like the newer model was able to switch between 2 or 3 pin hot XLRs. Do the 8 balanced/unbalanced switches to the right of the RCA jacks select 2-pin hot or 3-pin hot (for the XLR inputs/outputs)? I'm slightly confused... I just want to make sure that I can safely interface this with the aforementioned gear (which is 2-pin hot) and any other +4 gear that I buy. Thanks again! I'm still a total noob when it comes to these kind of things...
 
Off the top of my head...I can't recall if they were Pin 2 or 3 hot by default....but it's a minor point, you can rewire them internally, or use cables that are "flipped" at one end, or if wiring to a patchbay, flip one end there.

If that's a problem for you, I can check mine, I have one of the older ones and one of the later models with the extra switches for the Pins...but I probably won't get a chance until later in the day, maybe the evening, as I have a vocal recording session this afternoon, and I'll be busy with that right from the git-go, 'cuz I won't be up until late (I'm still up from tracking all night).

I would not worry about it being sold....they don't get a lot of buyers since people have no clue what they really are.
 
Thanks again. I have to make a bunch of cables for this mixer anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem - just wanted to know what I'm getting into first. Does this unit add any noise/coloration into the signal at all? I've never really used an outboard line mixer-type thing before so I'm not really sure how they work in terms of signal integrity (I guess that's what you'd call it?) I feel like it wouldn't really add anything to the signal, but I thought I'd ask.
 
Sorry to come to this late. The M520 and the Fostex are both pin 3 hot. Some of the later Fostexss are selectable, the older one is pin 3 hot.


****Also, the M-520 board has a 8 channels -10 to + 4 converter built in I can't remembr the name, but there are RCA jacks on the back for "balanced converter" or some such, and the male XLR's on the back are +4 (or +8 selectable inside) I use those to go to an Otari tape deck and then an Ebtech transformer to take the +4 back down to -10.

I have the 520 and the older Fostex unit.
 
Thanks for the info... I actually just got some really bad news from the technician who serviced this board. I won't go into to detail (I might over in Analog Only to make sure I never buy something untested again), but he said this M-520 has serious water damage - like, the whole bottom of the inside is rusted, and there are leaves and rocks and dirt and stuff inside. Cosmetically it is in flawless condition - the leather, the wood panels, all the VU's work, every LED, all the buttons and knobs, etc. are there. The only hint of a problem on the outside of the board is the bottom - where a little rust is showing but really not that much.

So if you guys know anybody who needs a fully functioning power supply, or anything that could be scrapped from this board, let me know! (It's okay, I found a Soundcraft Ghost 24, not LE, on c-list and picked it up right away). I still will probably need that line amp to run my TSR-8 to the Ghost, but it seems like there is a way to convert the Grp/pgm outs, and tape returns to -10dbv on one of the PCBs of the board; however, the manual doesn't say how to do this (just that you can). I will have to do some more searching. Thanks again for all the info! You guys have been very helpful.
 
Leaves and rocks and dirt? Wow. I'm guessing you took it to the tech because it didn't work? Well actually, I need a few knobs....
 
I know I'm late, but you really only have to worry about getting the signal to +4 into the 1176. It has an output level control, so you can just turn down the output of the 1176 to match the levels. It's approximately an 11db difference.
 
Leaves and rocks and dirt? Wow. I'm guessing you took it to the tech because it didn't work? Well actually, I need a few knobs....

No, it worked relatively well. Completely powered up - almost every channel passed signal in the line, tape and XLR ins... all of the PGM outs worked too. There were about 3 channels that didn't pass signal, and the L output of the stereo out(s) didn't pass signal. Other than that, EVERYTHING was dirty/scratchy, except for the faders and pan controls (which sounded like they were in perfect condition). I took it to the tech because he had done a great job cleaning up another board I had, and I hate doing that kind of cleaning myself... Anyway, I would send you some knobs if you need them :) - PM me and we can maybe work something out!
 
Also, as far as changing the board to -10, you may want to post in analog, or DIY, but I think you get a lot of fixityourselfers in analog.
 
Yo Ignatius! I think they are doing this the hard way. Here's the easy way:



Ebtech Line level Shifter | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

It changes 2 channels of +4 to -10 or the other way around, and accepts balanced or unbalanced 1/4" inputs. If you give it an unbalanced signal, that's what it puts out, and the same for balanced signals. I've used one for years, and it's a piece of gear every studio should have. I've used it for a bunch of Frankenstein projects, including feeding a KORG PXR4 Pandora with an Avalon AD2020, which is kind of like a Porsche-powered Smart Car.
 
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