yea im listening on computer satalite speakers, not even monitors, and i heard those differences imediatly. The boxy mids and harsh highs. Although to be honestly im not certain i love either of the preamps. But i guess thats an unfair statement considering i've never used them. But i would go with the RNP based on that recording.
RNP vs. DMP3
- Thread starter participant
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participant
New member
chessrock said:
If the difference between 14" and 16" is that big of a deal, than I don't see why choice of preamp matters that much, frankly.
guitar players are going to move around some... certainly 2" (when out more than 1') isn't going to change much.
If so, whatever
... not about to get into a hairsplitting match.JuSumPilgrim
New member
Even with a 2" dif in placement you wouldnt get the phased smeared quality if the preamp didnt do that in general. The DMP3 track sounded middy and brighter (in an uneven way) I guess the 2" dif in placement is partly why.
Middleman
Professional Amateur
I agree and there may be a proximity affect kicking in here too. Although the sound is similar to my DMP3 it seemed more undefined in the example file.
I am definitely going to pick up the RNP because it has the high end that I know the DMP3 does not quite capture. That sparkley unwavering sound on the guitar notes.
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crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
I changed my mind. The DMP3 sounds much better, so why don't you send me that piece of crap RNP as an early Christmas present?
Really, 2" does make a difference. You should have kept the exact same spacing and mic placement and done your adjustments to match with the DMP3.
Even so, My ears are telling me the RNP is the better pre, 2' or not.
Really, 2" does make a difference. You should have kept the exact same spacing and mic placement and done your adjustments to match with the DMP3.
Even so, My ears are telling me the RNP is the better pre, 2' or not.
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
I changed my mind. The DMP3 sounds much better, so why don't you send me that piece of crap RNP as an early Christmas present?
Really, 2" does make a difference. You should have kept the exact same spacing and mic placement and done your adjustments to match with the DMP3.
Even so, My ears are telling me the RNP is the better pre, 2' or not.
Really, 2" does make a difference. You should have kept the exact same spacing and mic placement and done your adjustments to match with the DMP3.
Even so, My ears are telling me the RNP is the better pre, 2' or not.
participant
New member
pile on, everybody
You're right. Keith's right, too. Littledog... anything to add?
Feel free to jump on, it's idiot posts like this that make me realize I still know nothing
Problem was, I recorded the RNP last; I moved back 2" from the same position, because at 42db gain I was afraid it would clip. Should have re-recorded the DMP3 at the same distance; but then A1A2's comments about my uneven picking style come into play. This stuff is best left to real musicians and AE's.
Now this is dead wrong--but it's a guess: The 2" make a big difference because of the uneven radiation patterns on guitar? There. I did it again. Stupidity, incarnate
Thanks for leaving me at least a shred of pride, crawdad & Keith
DJL--maybe SLuiCe or tubedude could hook ya up with such a test... I gotta get rid of this foot-in-mouth disease before it kills me
You're right. Keith's right, too. Littledog... anything to add?
Feel free to jump on, it's idiot posts like this that make me realize I still know nothing Problem was, I recorded the RNP last; I moved back 2" from the same position, because at 42db gain I was afraid it would clip. Should have re-recorded the DMP3 at the same distance; but then A1A2's comments about my uneven picking style come into play. This stuff is best left to real musicians and AE's.
Now this is dead wrong--but it's a guess: The 2" make a big difference because of the uneven radiation patterns on guitar? There. I did it again. Stupidity, incarnate
Thanks for leaving me at least a shred of pride, crawdad & Keith
DJL--maybe SLuiCe or tubedude could hook ya up with such a test... I gotta get rid of this foot-in-mouth disease before it kills me
joshua m.d.
New member
What happened to the files? i got nothing when i followed the original link? Did i miss something?
Middleman
Professional Amateur
I'm hoping our buddy participant, is redoing the tests with the VTB-1 included. That is why the files are not currently available.
He would be the hero of a lot of people here who have been waiting to hear the differences between these products prior to buying one of them.
eh participiant?
He would be the hero of a lot of people here who have been waiting to hear the differences between these products prior to buying one of them.
eh participiant?
SLuiCe
New member
Re: pile on, everybody
Sure no problem. Just send me your RNP for a week and I'll compare it to the VTB-1 pair. (Hands off, Al...)
I agree that 2" will make a difference, but I also agree that this thread and your experiment are both well worth the effort.
DJL said:
participant said:
DJL--maybe SLuiCe or tubedude could hook ya up with such a test... I gotta get rid of this foot-in-mouth disease before it kills me
Sure no problem. Just send me your RNP for a week and I'll compare it to the VTB-1 pair.
(Hands off, Al...)I agree that 2" will make a difference, but I also agree that this thread and your experiment are both well worth the effort.
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
Oh sure, SluiCe! Butt right in and try and take my Christmas present! Hey, I'm just trying to do Participant a favor.
Participant--Your tests were still very useful and informative despite the 2" difference in placement--I agree. Doing these kinds of comparisons is, by nature, difficult for one person to do. Since the idea is eliminate variables, you'd want the same mic, same placement and the exact same performance. About the best you can do is adhere to the first two unless you wanted to mic a player piano or something!
I'd love to hear the RNP/DMP3/VTB1 shootout as well.
One more thing--your acoustic guitar. It sounds to me like your problem is not your ability to play--its the setup on your guitar. It responds like a guitar that has very high action. I dunno, it just sounds that way to me. I could almost see the indentation marks in your fingertips! Maybe I'm crazy, but that was the first thing I thought when I played those clips.
Hey, I'm just trying to do Participant a favor. Participant--Your tests were still very useful and informative despite the 2" difference in placement--I agree. Doing these kinds of comparisons is, by nature, difficult for one person to do. Since the idea is eliminate variables, you'd want the same mic, same placement and the exact same performance. About the best you can do is adhere to the first two unless you wanted to mic a player piano or something!
I'd love to hear the RNP/DMP3/VTB1 shootout as well.
One more thing--your acoustic guitar. It sounds to me like your problem is not your ability to play--its the setup on your guitar. It responds like a guitar that has very high action. I dunno, it just sounds that way to me. I could almost see the indentation marks in your fingertips! Maybe I'm crazy, but that was the first thing I thought when I played those clips.
Re: pile on, everybody
Does 2" make a difference? Perhaps I should bring my girlfriend in on this one...
Of course, there's two inches, and there's two inches. It's more the ratio that counts - there's a bigger difference between moving from 1" away to 3" away, obviously, than from 34" to 36".
In this case I believe you said something like 14" to 16"?
Here's how I think of it... the human ear is most sensitive to the human voice, for evolutionary reasons. (Fundamentalists can post their objections elsewhere, I ain't interested.) While a difference in guitar sounds moving from 14" to 16" might not be obviously apparent (depending on the mic and the room) I honestly believe that most of us could hear that difference readily if it was the human voice being tested at those distances. Many is the time when I'm trying to match a vocal overdub up with a take recorded on a previous day where I'll say "let's back off (or move in) about two more inches and try it again".
That being the case, it seems that the test would have to be considered flawed. Since you are interested and motivated to do this right, why not just do it again and take all the argument out of the argument?
participant said:You're right. Keith's right, too. Littledog... anything to add?
Does 2" make a difference? Perhaps I should bring my girlfriend in on this one...
Of course, there's two inches, and there's two inches. It's more the ratio that counts - there's a bigger difference between moving from 1" away to 3" away, obviously, than from 34" to 36".
In this case I believe you said something like 14" to 16"?
Here's how I think of it... the human ear is most sensitive to the human voice, for evolutionary reasons. (Fundamentalists can post their objections elsewhere, I ain't interested.) While a difference in guitar sounds moving from 14" to 16" might not be obviously apparent (depending on the mic and the room) I honestly believe that most of us could hear that difference readily if it was the human voice being tested at those distances. Many is the time when I'm trying to match a vocal overdub up with a take recorded on a previous day where I'll say "let's back off (or move in) about two more inches and try it again".
That being the case, it seems that the test would have to be considered flawed. Since you are interested and motivated to do this right, why not just do it again and take all the argument out of the argument?
participant
New member
If I have any credibility left...
ok... the files have been re-recorded, and put back up here.
BLIND test this time; which one sounds best?
Same song, same guitar, but this time both at 16" & of course, nothing else. No compression, FX, etc. Played more fluidly (hopefully) without the stacatto attack (probably caused by listening to the damn click... )
There are a few flams here & there, but damn... I can't seem to play acoustics without major left hand cramps
topic for a different thread?
I didn't cut the dead air from the beginnings, so you could get an idea of the mic/pre circuit noise (hiss)
---
Test with VTB1/RNP will come when I get more time, between Christmas shopping/wrapping/eating/sleeping/working 6 days this week. How 'bout vocals? Reasonably sure I could do those without flams And some electric guitar amp
Chad
ok... the files have been re-recorded, and put back up here.
BLIND test this time; which one sounds best?
Same song, same guitar, but this time both at 16" & of course, nothing else. No compression, FX, etc. Played more fluidly (hopefully) without the stacatto attack (probably caused by listening to the damn click...
)There are a few flams here & there, but damn... I can't seem to play acoustics without major left hand cramps
topic for a different thread?I didn't cut the dead air from the beginnings, so you could get an idea of the mic/pre circuit noise (hiss)
---
Test with VTB1/RNP will come when I get more time, between Christmas shopping/wrapping/eating/sleeping/working 6 days this week. How 'bout vocals? Reasonably sure I could do those without flams
And some electric guitar amp Chad
Middleman
Professional Amateur
participant ,
You are the best, man. Thanks for taking the time.
Yeah it stills fairly clear that #1 is the RNP. (Make me a liar so I will be forced to keep my DMP3)
However, the DMP3 did sound much cleaner this time being at a little more distance. It is still a little too low- mid heavy but the honking midrange was gone. It is not as clean on top as the RNP and I know what Harvey G. meant now about its clean high end.
Darn, now I have to sell my mountain bike, replace it with an exercise program, just so I can buy the RNP.
You are the best, man. Thanks for taking the time.
Yeah it stills fairly clear that #1 is the RNP. (Make me a liar so I will be forced to keep my DMP3)
However, the DMP3 did sound much cleaner this time being at a little more distance. It is still a little too low- mid heavy but the honking midrange was gone. It is not as clean on top as the RNP and I know what Harvey G. meant now about its clean high end.
Darn, now I have to sell my mountain bike, replace it with an exercise program, just so I can buy the RNP.
oops. Wait a minute, here. I change my mind. I think I like #1 better because of the performance, but on further review, I'm guessing #2 is the RNP for other reasons I will not disclose.
All I can say is I'm very confident in the capabilities of either -- both very excellent pres for the money; a couple of the best at their respective price points.
All I can say is I'm very confident in the capabilities of either -- both very excellent pres for the money; a couple of the best at their respective price points.