Have Mackie Onyx 1220+FW, want Onyx 400F? 1200F

J

jon_s

New member
I'm doing some recording projects for friends and have been using an Onyx 1220. Sound quality is acceptable, and I like Tracktion, but as an audiophile I feel like I can always do better :D.

The mixer aspect I can give up, so I wonder if a smaller more-expensive box without a bunch of knobs and sliders may sound better and contain better parts. I also need an extra 2 mic pres.

Anyone compare a 400F or 1200F with a 1220+FW? Think its worth the upgrade? I know they have some better ADs, but I'm curious if the mic pres are also improved. I guess my options would be:

1) Keep the 1220, blow $$$ on 2x sweet tube mic pres.
2) Swap for a 400F, blow $$$ on 2x sweet tube mic pres.
3) Get a Mackie 1200F, and pass on tube mic pres.
4) Keep the 1220, dump my firewire card on ebay, buy a 400F.
5) None of the above.

Help me decide!
 
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Keep the mixer, and keep the FW card for backup (though in a short bit I think a 192Khz card might be available... it's possible, but quality is unknown).

If going SS, I'd say get a Millenia preamp, maybe a Great River

If not then Chandler

Apogee AD if you have to have 192Khz.
 
I have kind of a similar setup-- I have the 1220 and FW card, but mostly track through a Universal Audio m610 or a Chameleon Labs 7602. I use the Onyx preamps, which are decidedly "neutral/transparent" relative to the UA and the CL (which both have transformer ins and outs and are decidedly "charactered/colored") for stereo micing or when I need more preamps. This covers a lot of sonic territory for me, but then again I do mostly singer/songwriter stuff and am usually not using more than 2-3 tracks at a time.
I guess it might similarly depend on what you're going to be recording primarily.
 
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Interesting thoughts here... I really don't want or need more than 24/96 recording capabilities, but at the same time, I wouldn't mind having "better" 24/96 DACs than what are offered in the 1220. I suppose I can hold off until I can afford a Mytek or Apogee rig, and focus on mic pres and mics.

What I need most are 2 more mic channels. So, now I am looking into building a two-channel vacuum tube preamp. If it looks unpromisingly expensive, then I'll probably go for some upgrade to another Onyx toy.
 
if you're good at electronics, the hamptone kits are supposed to be really good. yeah one problem with the 1220 is that it only has stereo outs. are you thinking about mixing down through some sort of analog summing buss or something? you could mix out of a better dac and through the 1220 actually too-- i've read where some people have actually tried that with good results, or you could mix through a passive summing buss into the tube preamps you're building if it takes line level signals.
 
kojdogg said:
if you're good at electronics, the hamptone kits are supposed to be really good. yeah one problem with the 1220 is that it only has stereo outs. are you thinking about mixing down through some sort of analog summing buss or something? you could mix out of a better dac and through the 1220 actually too-- i've read where some people have actually tried that with good results, or you could mix through a passive summing buss into the tube preamps you're building if it takes line level signals.
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I was thinking about the Hamptone, or the K&K Audio RCA BC-2B kit replica (a bit more $$$). Alternatively, I may design and build something from scratch. My only reservation with the Hamptone is that some of the parts quality seems a bit lower than what I'd choose ... I fear I'd end up upgrading it extensively and spending way more than expected.

I don't mix-down through the 1220 at all, I just record the individual raw tracks (you can record pre-EQ from any number of channels at once), and the rest is done digitally in Tracktion. The mixer is handy for monitoring live-style recordings, or mixing a quick live demo and recording the stereo outs ... but these are features I'm ready to sacrifice when the time comes to upgrade. Mostly, I just use it as a big Firewire AD interface box.
 
another option is getting a api 500 series compatible rack and then building eisen kits as you need them. if i had a clue about that stuff, that's the way i would go, though i don't think any of the kits or 500 series compatible preamp makers make tube preamps...
 
kojdogg said:
another option is getting a api 500 series compatible rack and then building eisen kits as you need them. if i had a clue about that stuff, that's the way i would go, though i don't think any of the kits or 500 series compatible preamp makers make tube preamps...
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Wow, I hadn't heard of those, but they look pretty neat! I'm not opposed to op-amp designs, but tubes really do sound good as preamps. The transformers in the Hamptone kit look pretty good, so I'm going to inquire as to what resistors and caps they currently come with... maybe I could get a partial kit at a slight discount.
 
jon_s said:
Wow, I hadn't heard of those, but they look pretty neat! I'm not opposed to op-amp designs, but tubes really do sound good as preamps. The transformers in the Hamptone kit look pretty good, so I'm going to inquire as to what resistors and caps they currently come with... maybe I could get a partial kit at a slight discount.
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I think with the Eisen kits you can use either op-amps or transformers and they give a long list of what's compatible. One thing I've read and found to be true in my limited experience is that good or "charactered" transformers will effect the sound as much or more than tube circuits. Good luck-- I wish I had the skills to build that stuff!
 
incidentally, have you considered the peavey vmp-2? it's got a good rep on this and other recording boards. it's two channels and you can usually get them from around $6-800 used around here and there if you can get past the peavey branding. i was considering one and might have picked one up if i wasn't so set on the m610
 
kojdogg said:
incidentally, have you considered the peavey vmp-2? it's got a good rep on this and other recording boards. it's two channels and you can usually get them from around $6-800 used around here and there if you can get past the peavey branding. i was considering one and might have picked one up if i wasn't so set on the m610
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Whoa, those look great too. Not too worried about the name, it sounds like a solid piece ... If I see one show up on ebay, I may jump on it.

In the meantime, I contacted Hamptone about a possible kit minus tubes, resistors, and caps :D.
 
I was the other way around. I wanted the mixer and the firewire but the cost for both was ridiculous, plus I would of had to mod it so I ended up with the 400F from ebay, got screwed by the way. Keep the mixer, you'll always have some use for it.
 
I have one, and love it for what it was designed for...

home studios

If you have one with FW, it's worth it to get the mod done, I mean after all, you've paid for that EQ, you might as well be able to use it when you use the FW card, right?

I still prefer my 1220 over the A&H mini-mixers, most of which cost about 2X what I paid for mine and don't have an A/D option.

If you're looking to upgrade, find yourself a nice tube preamp, a good HW compressor (toss in an additional EQ there somewhere) and start playing around. At that point you'll have 4 really clean SS pres from the Onyx, another set of tube pres, a compressor to have some fun with, and an EQ to even things out. With the Onyx mod, you'll actually have 2EQs if you want to go that route (while it may not be as cool as a Lil' FrEQ, the PEQ is still pretty good in my book).

Personally, one of my most successful "racks" (it's all housed in an 6U/10U slant by Road Ready Designs) for vocals, vox, and guitars is comprised of an M-610, Crane Song Trakker, Lil' FrEQ, Millenia, and an Onyx 1220 w/FW and pre-fader mod.
 
I have a Mackie 1220 but use it in conjunction with my Tascam 2488 and a FMC RNP 8380 (which is a stereo microphone preamp). With the Mackie 1220 I assign channels 1 & 2 to the left and right main outs and then assign channels 3 & 4 to the Alt ¾ outputs, that way I have four separate outputs for each the four mike channels that are then input to the 2488. I then use the FMC RNP 8380 for two more channels (into the 2488) and that leaves me with two more inputs on my 2488 that are used as is. I have never used the Firewire I/O option and probably never will because I use the 2488 as my main recorder. I think the Mackie Onyx series mixers are a really nice upgrade from the older Mackie’s boards, particularly because of the new Onyx preamps and Perkins EQ, it's a shame you can't use the EQ with the Firewire.
 
kojdogg said:
Yeah, which I understand costs almost as much as the mixer itself (plus shipping)
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Hardly... $249

still ends up beating comprable A&H mixers and has a DA
 
Yoda117 said:
Hardly... $249

still ends up beating comprable A&H mixers and has a DA
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my mistake. :)
it still kind of sucks that you have to pay to get this mod done (plus the inserts being bypassed for recording). i understand their rationale for configuring the mixer in this way (flexibility for using the mixer live and recording it at the same time, i believe is how they justify it), but i still feel entitled to gripe about it.
 
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