Gain 0 And Still Peaking!!! Help!!!

[Ford Van]

I see the problem now. I should have known the gear involved first and followed my hunch!!!

The PR8e is +4 balanced outputs!

The 1814 line inputs at -10 unbalanced!

There appears to be no way to set the PR8e's outputs to -10, thus, you are screwed!

You should check specs like these before purchase!

What you really need is an "interface" that has +4 balanced inputs.

 

[SonicAlbert]

??? I don't get it. What does the line level input/output operating level have to do with a mic plugged into the built in preamp?

Nothing. It's a whole 'nother issue, but one that should be on his troubleshooting list. I get the impression he doesn't fully know how the gain staging is working throughout his system, or how each unit is really operating internally. So he needs to check everything and learn everything about his equipment. Most likely he is double preamping, but he could also be double preamping *and* having a gain mis-match.

 

[Ford Van]

Nothing. It's a whole 'nother issue, but one that should be on his troubleshooting list. I get the impression he doesn't fully know how the gain staging is working throughout his system, or how each unit is really operating internally. So he needs to check everything and learn everything about his equipment. Most likely he is double preamping, but he could also be double preamping *and* having a gain mis-match.

Damn, I was hoping I got to editing my post before you read that. Sorry. You were sort of on track.

I doubt he is double preamping, because usually these units disable the parallel input that is not in use once you plug something into the other.

But, see my newly edited post that you quote. Truly, he has an operating level mis-match!

 

[Ford Van]

And for the record guys, whether a input/output in balanced or unbalanced has nothing directly to do with whether it is -10 or +4, except by manufacture design.

You can have unbalanced +4, and you can have -10 balanced!

The only way to know for sure what is what is to read the spec sheet carefully!

I agree that M-Audio unit is a screwy unit! Unbalanced inputs with balanced outputs? The OPAMP difference in price between unbalanced and balanced is what? $.10 or something? And the difference between a TS and TRS jack is no more than $.10 in the quantities they buy in! It is like they are forcing you to use the crappy built in preamp.

 

[thebreathing]

dear sonic albert,

i know my gear and i know how the gain staging is working throughout my system.

if you would take the time to actually read all the posts then you would know that the things you are saying have no relevance to the problem, we have already been over it.

i am in no way double preamping the signal.

the problem DOES seem to be that i am going from +4 to -10.

im going to have to get some of those "clever little devices" from naiant.

speaking of naiant, they are an amazing little company, i just got one of their $19 msh-1 mics and it is awesome, i use it way more than i thought i would.


thanks everyone for their help!


jason

 

[Ford Van]

You have to make sure now that you get a Line Level Pad, instead of a Mic Level Pad. A 10dB Line Level Pad should do just fine, but if you suspect the preamps might still be a bit hot (not likely with cheaper units like that) a 15dB Line Level Pad might be in order.

 

[MOFO Pro]

i know my gear and i know how the gain staging is working throughout my system.

Dear thebreathing,

Then why the question in the first place... you don't think input and output levels have anything to do with gain staging?

If you're going to be rude... at least be right

 

[thebreathing]

im not the one being rude.

and at no point in any of the literature that came with the sm did it say the output was +4db

so it didnt really cross my mind.

that why.

<3 jason

 

[SonicAlbert]

dear sonic albert,

i know my gear and i know how the gain staging is working throughout my system.

if you would take the time to actually read all the posts then you would know that the things you are saying have no relevance to the problem, we have already been over it.

i am in no way double preamping the signal.

the problem DOES seem to be that i am going from +4 to -10.

If you had read my post a little more thoroughly you'd have noticed that I suggested a couple things to troubleshoot, one of which was the +4/-10 gain staging problem. The real problem you were experiencing though was that you did not read your manuals or understand what was happening to the signal as it passed through your gear.

I don't appreciate your attitude toward me, especially since I took the time out of my day to help you with your problem. Don't worry, it won't happen again. Welcome to my "ignore" list.

 

[thebreathing]

look im not trying to start a fight here, and i dont want to be on anyones ignore list, its just that i replyed to your post about the double pre amping and explained why that couldnt be happening, which you must have ignored because you brought it up again and then you proceeded to suggest (twice) that i didnt know my gear or read my manuals. which is not true. i do, and did.

there is nothing in the manuals, which i said before, that says the signal is leaving the pre at +4. so it was the last thing on my mind. that is why i came here.

i appreciate your help and everyone elses, but dont patronize me, i may not be as "experienced" as you but im not an idiot.

im not going to argue anymore, its stupid, if you still want to put me on your ignore list, thats okay.

have a nice day.


<3 jason

 

[dgatwood]

Use line inputs 3 & 4 on the 1814. 1 & 2 are more than likely wired to the front of the unit with the pres on them. It sounds to me like you are going out of one pre into another pre.

No, they are not. The rear 1&2 inputs are line level inputs, post pre.

If you're getting clipping, one of the following is true:

• You are feeding a +4 dB signal in when the M-Audio panel has the inputs set to -10 dB. Launch the "M-Audio FireWire Control Panel" application (or whatever the Windows equivalent is) and change the setting for those inputs.
• Your external preamp's output is too hot for some other reason
• You are clipping in the pres in the external preamp

 

[MadAudio]

...launch the "M-Audio FireWire Control Panel" application (or whatever the Windows equivalent is) and change the setting for those inputs....

Aha, so my suggestion wasn't all that improper.

 

[SonicAlbert]

look im not trying to start a fight here, and i dont want to be on anyones ignore list, its just that i replyed to your post about the double pre amping and explained why that couldnt be happening, which you must have ignored because you brought it up again and then you proceeded to suggest (twice) that i didnt know my gear or read my manuals. which is not true. i do, and did.

Okay, sorry if I offended you and assumed you didn't read the manuals. It seems so few people seem to read manuals, I just assume that's the case when something basic like gain stage mismatching happens. I understand how it can happen, and certainly all of us have been through a learning curve.

In your defense, you are correct that the sm pro pr8e documentation is missing important basic information. At least as far as I have been able to find. I find that to be true far too often with manuals, especially on budget gear.

You're definitely not on my ignore list!

 

[MadAudio]

Okay, sorry if I offended you and assumed you didn't read the manuals. It seems so few people seem to read manuals, I just assume that's the case when something basic like gain stage mismatching happens. I understand how it can happen, and certainly all of us have been through a learning curve.

In your defense, you are correct that the sm pro pr8e documentation is missing important basic information. At least as far as I have been able to find. I find that to be true far too often with manuals, especially on budget gear.

You're definitely not on my ignore list!

He did however aver that his interface had no sort of software control panel though, and dgatwood's post indicates otherwise. This leads me to concur with the opinion that he doesn't really know his gear as well as he claims to.

 

[Randy5235]

The fw1814 does have a software control panel it does NOT however have an option to change from -10dbv to +4dbu. The fw1814 line input are unbalanced -10dbv and outside of modding the box is going to change that.


Randy

(edited for clarity)

 

[dgatwood]

The fw1814 does have a software control panel it does NOT however have an option to change from -10dbv to +4dbu. The fw1814 line input are unbalanced -10dbv and outside of modding the box is going to change that.

Oops. I was thinking of the Delta cards. My bad.