Gain 0 And Still Peaking!!! Help!!!

T

thebreathing

New member
hey everyone i am having a hard time figuring out why my pre amp (sm pro audio pr8e) is still peaking with the gain turned all the way down!?

i tried recording a drum set last night, for the first time with this pre amp.

and i couldnt figure out what was going on.

im going from the pr8 into a firewire 1814 with protools.

straight in.

does anyone know what i can do to prevent this from happening, it doesnt make much sense to me.

shouldnt there be no signal coming through when it is set at 0?


thanks for th ehelp!


jason
 
By "set at 0" I assume you mean the gain/trim control is all the way off?? fully counterclockwise? Some controls have "0" meaning "no attenuation no cut no boost"....which isn't the same thing as "off".

Something somewhere in the chain has to be boosting the signal. Are you running at -10 or +4?
 
At what point are you experiencing clipping? If its on the PR-8 itself, I have no idea. If its within the software, then you may very well be running something far too hot, be it the input gain on the SMPro preamp, or one of the many gain settings associated with the interface (the input gain, the gain on the channel you're recording into). Make sure you aren't jacking the signal even more than what the SMPro is bumping it up to, as the signal coming from that pre should be going into the 1814 as a line-level source.

Why are you using the PR-8 anyway? I'd assume the 1814 has pre's, and I'll be they are probably much better than the SMPro dealie... try recording without the SMPro in the chain and give us an update :)
 
yes, its turned all the way down, counterclockwise.

and i dont see what would be boosting the signal, its just mic - pre - interface.

thats why it is so confusing.


jason
 
Huh.

Well, Im stumped. What kinda mic is it? Not that I think that would matter, but Im outta ideas :confused:

Like I said, perhaps try it without the SMPro in the signal path, and see what the 1814's onboard pre's do. That's all i've got at the moment, sorry!
 
Wait, what exactly is causing the peaking? I know that's your question, but let me elaborate.

1- What mic are you using? Have you tried other mics?
2- What are you recording? Does it peak no matter how loud the source is?
3- Is the preamp itself peaking? Or is your program peaking?
4- Can you audibly hear the peaking in the form of distortion?
 
the 1814 only has 2 pre's.

the pr8 is running into the line inputs on the back of the interface, seeing as there are only 2 pre's in dont see how it is going to get boosted even more.

it was peaking on every mic i tried, bets 52, 57 and the twp overheads i was using mxl 990's

i was recording a loud drummer, but i still dont see how i was getting that loud of a signal with the gain all the way down.

i havent changed/checked any settings in protools but i havent had any problems before just using the internal pre's

the internal pre's have pads on them, so i never have that problem with them.

crap.
 
One important thing I learned recently is, on 99% of all interfaces you'll come across, turning the knob all the way down doesn't mean the gain is "off". It just means it is attenuated as far as the manufacturer wants you to be able to attenuate. For example, on my mixer (Yamaha MG16/4), a couple drum mics I've got peak on every strong hit, with the "gain" turned all the way down. I suppose I need to purchase some xlr inline 10db pads to keep around for such occasions, but using my ears I can't hear any artifacts, and it's not peaking in my DAW, so I'm assuming Yamaha was a little on the safe side when designing their peak meters :)
 
i'll check out my interfaces settings when i get home from work tonight and post an update...

where can i find some of those xlr inline pads?


but has anyone else ever heard of this happening?

is there anyway to adjust the gain of the pre amp internally, like open it up and turn something down?


jason
 
Is there any kind of software control panel for the 1814? Perhaps there is something in there where you can toggle between +4 and -10.
 
that sure is strange... :cool: to make a super elcheapo pad you could just lift the - pin.
 
MadAudio said:
Is there any kind of software control panel for the 1814? Perhaps there is something in there where you can toggle between +4 and -10.
Click to expand...

If the pre itself is peaking, I would imagine the problem would be in the pre, not the interface/software?
 
MadAudio said:
Is there any kind of software control panel for the 1814? Perhaps there is something in there where you can toggle between +4 and -10.
Click to expand...

What good would that do when he is running a mic to the BUILT IN preamp? ;)

You need an inline Pad, probably around 15 -20 dB pad will do the trick.
 
It looks to me like inputs 1&2 are duplicated on both the front and back of the unit. This goes along with the previous poster's correct comment that setting a preamp to all the way "off" does not necessarily mean it is not boosting gain. You can still have a significant amount of gain being added even with the gain knob all the way down. Many preamps will offer a range of amplification from +20 to +60, for example. Add the minimum +20 from the SM to the minimum +20 from the preamp in the M-Audio, and you've got some serious gain going, even with the preamps at their lowest settings.

These minimum gain numbers are something you should have made yourself aware of as the operator of this equipment. Read the manuals, and save yourself some frustration. If you even look at the specs for the 1814 in their advertising you'll see that there is +60dB of total gain, with about 40 of that adjustable. The 8PRe looks to be designed the same way. So you don't get back to approximately zero gain until you put the -20 pad in on both units.

I also agree that you should check the +4 versus -10 settings, but I think the first thing to do is put the pads in and see if that gets you low enough. It looks like you were double preamping the signal. A loud drummer might not need that much volume boost to begin with.
 
like i said before, the 1814 only has 2 built in pres. i am going in at line level on the back of the pre, skipping inputs 1 and 2, since you can only use one of the. there are pads on the pre amps in the 1814, that is not the problem.

there are no pads on the pr8e, which is the whole point of this post.

i checked my interface (and have read the manual multiple times) and there doesnt seem to be anywhere to toggle between +4 and -10.

is there anyway to go into the pre amp itself and adjust the amount of gain, like turn something internal down?

or does that sound crazy to everyone.

jason
 
Use line inputs 3 & 4 on the 1814. 1 & 2 are more than likely wired to the front of the unit with the pres on them. It sounds to me like you are going out of one pre into another pre.

M-audio also put those buttons on the front of those units for mic/line inputs so if you don't want to use 3 & 4 push the buttons on the front to make sure they are line level.
 
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If you are using the line inputs on the back ( which as you indicated seems to be the case) then the controls on the front for 1 & 2 for the fw1814 are bypassed as is mic pre. are you using a trs or xlr to trs cable? The reason I ask is the line inputs on the fw1814 are unbalanced at -10dbv . It appears that the output is balanced ( and probably at +4dbu) You are most likely experiencing a line level mismatch. The signal from the sm pro is too hot. Find a balanced to unbalanced and level converter. This will solve your problem.


Randy
 
What a screwy little interface. Balanced line outputs, but unbalanced line inputs. In this case, you may actually have better luck going through the front mic/inst jacks and setting it to "instrument" with the pad engaged. But then what to do about the other inputs? Well, if you are feeling crafty, you could get some cable, some plugs, and some resistors and make your own special interfacing cables. This page has some info at the very bottom: http://www.dplay.com/dv/balance/balance.html
Or you could go to the naiant store and buy some pads, although this may end up costing as much as your entire preamp did. MPD Inline Attenuator (+4dBu to -10dBV version) -- http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/cleverdevices.html
 
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