CarmenC said:
Are you being selective in your principles, or will you boycott Microsoft and any company that does business with them?
I wish I could, but my studio would be out of business if I did - I do a lot of mixing in native apps for people on the internet - it's one of my sell points. Those native apps don't run on Linux. MS has me in a very uncomfortable bind. Someone made the same analogy about petrol companies. Same problem - I don't have a choice.
Behringer, on the other hand, doesn't have me in a bind. I can choose not to buy their products, because I have many other alternatives. I can say "fuck you" to Behringer and not buy their products. It won't damage my business in any form, shape, or manner.
What do you want Behringer to do?
Raise their prices to the same level as everyone else?
No, stop ripping designs. Mackie provided evidence in court that Behringer followed the mixer design they reverse-engineered so tight that they even reproduced an error on the specific mixer in all their units. That error existed only on a certain lot of Mackie mixers that slipped through QC.
If a PC company came out with a knock-off of the new Imac for $700.00,
Apple would fuck them hard.
True enough. Apple fucked a lot of people hard over the years. Just ask Colecovision.
You're crucifying Behringer for giving the people what they want.
Products that do the job they need done for less than the competition.
They're quality must be close enough for govt. work, as they seem to be thriving.
Easy to cut an extremely low price point when you're not paying for the R&D, dude.
It's only theft if the design is patented or copyrighted in some form.
Theft SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED!
Correct.
But it will not be stopped if the company that was wronged will not defend itself and prove the theft in a court, if indeed it is theft.
2 problems.
1) Behringer is a multimillion dollar international corporation. Ebtech is a small boutique shop in Illinois. Behringer has a legal squad big enough to keep Ebtech tied up in court for years, draining Ebtech's resources and eventually putting them out of business.
2) Even though Mackie proved that Behringer reverse engineered their mixers, because the case was tried in a UK court, Behringer got by because the EU does not recognize U.S. design rights. If Mackie (or in this case, Ebtech) were headquartered in Europe, Behringer would be fucked. Obvious reason for Behringer to rip U.S. companies.
If you were a retail store owner that was known to be too tired to chase shoplifters, you be raped on a hourly basis.
If it's theft, SUE!
Interesting analogy. See above.
If it's not, take a look at ways of streamlining your production costs to the nth degree, or companies like Behringer are going to eat your lunch.
Again - when you're not paying for the R&D, the company that is doesn't stand a chance of competing with you. This is why IBM licensed out the PC design and eventually got out of the PC market. They made a shitpile of money on those licenses and then bailed because other people were way undercutting them and they were losing money.
You must compete in the WORLD market now, and the people who are doing well at this have discovered the joys of outsourcing assembly and test to China.
Sure thing. I agree.
For your boycott to be genuine, you would have to boycott every product that's made in China!
No, I wouldn't. Just the products that are direct ripoffs of other company's products. Did you look at the designs? Bill over at Ebtech reiterated to me exactly what he posted here - Behringer's design is identical to Ebtech's right down to the last cap. That's theft, in my book.
You need to get a few hundred people to pay more for their gear because Behringer MAY have stolen a design.
So be it. I can damned sure try. So far, in the 5 hours since I posted this, I've managed to enrage at least 40. 40 enraged people can reach a lot of other people. That's how boycotts get started.
I think most people need a stronger case than that before they pay more for what they want.
The pictoral evidence is very compelling. Compelling enough, especially for a company that's gotten in trouble for doing this in the past - but the companies they picked on then were big enough to stand up for themselves. Aphex fought and won their case against Behringer for stealing the exciter circuit. Mackie got the shaft because they're an American company. Now Behringer has taken to picking on small companies who don't have the financial resources to fight them, so they can avoid the legal battles altogether.
Prove to me that Behringer STOLE that design and that the design had a patent or some form of legal protection from copying, and I'm with ya.
Under U.S. law, the design right would hold up against another US company. Under EU law, the design right of an EU country would hold up. Behringer's HQ is in Germany, which forces Ebtech to do battle in Europe, where they would lose, because of the EU copyright laws.
Apathy is the best friend of companies like Behringer.
