another in need of preamp suggestions

pandamonk

Well-known member
Ok, I've had a plan for my studio for around and year, and I've decided now that i know a lot more that it's terrible, so I'm starting again.

I plan to get a TASCAM US-2400, ESI ESP1010, and PRESONUS FIREPOD.
I've heard the firepod has really nice preamps for the price, so this would be a good choice for me. I plan on having 16 channels into the computer, and would like some variety. I would like to get 4 2 channel rack mountable pre amps, and don't think i can really spend anymore than around £1000. I will be mostly recording music of an acoustic, rock, and metal genre.
I don't really know what to look for in a preamp... I know some add colour, and some are clean, but that is all really. Is there any suggestions?
 
Trust your ears, if you have the chance to audition some audio gear in your local store go for it. There's no better way to know what you need
 
bubbagump said:
Onyx 800R. Probably the best 8 channel pre out there for the money.

The SP828 isn't bad either if you don't need converters.

Hey you have great skrimps! ;)

War
 
rustyblue said:
Trust your ears, if you have the chance to audition some audio gear in your local store go for it. There's no better way to know what you need
I'd love to. Only problem is there is absolutely nowhere i know of round here that has any equipment. I know a couple of places that might do a couple, but not much, and they are 40miles away in Glasgow. So i don't really wanna travel to only see a couple, if any. And to the suggestions, they look good, but id rather just get a few with a couple of pre in each, so i get a variety to choose from when recording. Like four different two channel preamps.

Big Kenny said:
See how many firepods are for sale the classified?
What do you mean?
 
This is kind of a shot in the dark. Unless you really need to be able to record that many channels at once, I'd be inclined to buy better preamps over time, rather than drop what amounts to $225 a channel or so immediately on 8 channels.

That said, if you want variety and you can buy used, I'd look at a Peavey VMP-2 (2 channel real tube preamp for about $600 used), maybe a DAV box (clean sound and should be pretty available used where you are), and an RNP (not so clean sounding and about $425 used). I'm not sure what else to look at in this price range that would be of comparable quality with a different sound. Maybe one of the Joe Meek units would be useful, but I'm not that familiar with them.
 
pohaku said:
This is kind of a shot in the dark. Unless you really need to be able to record that many channels at once, I'd be inclined to buy better preamps over time, rather than drop what amounts to $225 a channel or so immediately on 8 channels.

That said, if you want variety and you can buy used, I'd look at a Peavey VMP-2 (2 channel real tube preamp for about $600 used), maybe a DAV box (clean sound and should be pretty available used where you are), and an RNP (not so clean sounding and about $425 used). I'm not sure what else to look at in this price range that would be of comparable quality with a different sound. Maybe one of the Joe Meek units would be useful, but I'm not that familiar with them.
I doubt I'd need to record that many tracks at once, but the situation may arise. Anyway, i want to use the firepod as my main, most used, preamps, but i'd like to be able to choose between a few on occasions. I've been interested in the joe meek for a while, so i might check one of those out. I know the budget ain't really great, but there are still a lot of preamps in this range, and they can't all sound the same. I would like to know a few favorites which differ a bit from each other... I'll check out the other suggestions too. Thanks :D
 
After a quick search through German site thomann.de I've found few options which seem to suit my needs:

SPL GOLDMIKE 9844

BEHRINGER T-1953 TUBE ULTRAGAIN

Focusrite TwinTrak Pro

TOFT Audio designs AFC-2

M-AUDIO DMP 3

FMR Audio RNP 8380

BEHRINGER MIC2200 ULTRAGAIN PRO

ART TPS II

ART MPA Gold

APHEX 207 D

Could you suggest some more similar products in the same price range which you know to be good products, and pick out for me which of these are good and which to avoid. I wish i had the money to buy them all and try them out, but i don't.

Thanks
 
Warhead said:
The SP828 isn't bad either if you don't need converters.

Hey you have great skrimps! ;)

War


Actually, those Burr-Brown dealies are muy nice too. A little less colored than the Onyx... but really nice. I forgot about that unit. I can't be;ieve how really impressed I am with the Onyx series. They aren't Neve or SSLs or anything, but for a lot of pres for not a ton of cash, they have really great head room and a great forward "British" presense. I was looking to add 8 channels on the cheap and I have ended up using the 800R over a Summit and a few other nice pres for a lot of stuff.
 
pandamonk said:
After a quick search through German site thomann.de I've found few options which seem to suit my needs:

SPL GOLDMIKE 9844

BEHRINGER T-1953 TUBE ULTRAGAIN

Focusrite TwinTrak Pro

TOFT Audio designs AFC-2

M-AUDIO DMP 3

FMR Audio RNP 8380

BEHRINGER MIC2200 ULTRAGAIN PRO

ART TPS II

ART MPA Gold

APHEX 207 D

Could you suggest some more similar products in the same price range which you know to be good products, and pick out for me which of these are good and which to avoid. I wish i had the money to buy them all and try them out, but i don't.

Thanks


Umm, with the exception of the FMR Audio RNP, the Toft (mostly because of the EQ) and maybe the SPL Goldmike (with which I'm not that familiar, but SPL makes some decent stuff), IMHO I don't think the other units you have listed are sufficiently better than or different enough from the firepod pres to be worth buying. With your budget, and the fact that you have pres with the firepod, I'd rather get fewer channels of really good pres that will make a difference and that I won't "outgrow" and feel compelled to replace later on.

I would think you should be able to pick up a DAV BG1 locally for a pretty good price (they are made in the UK and I expect used ones should be fairly available) which should cover clean and transparent really well. Then I'd look for either a good real tube preamp (no starved plate designs) like a Peavey VMP-2, a Sebatron, an A-Designs MP-2 or maybe the SPL unit, or a good used two channel solid state preamp like a Great River MP2-NV or a Neve Portico, or even two channels of Chameleon Labs 7602.

These are pres that are more likely to meet your needs over the long haul. They should also hold their resale value better than the cheaper units. Buying used if you can will help on the cost front. I've equipped my studio primarily with used equipment and have done pretty well. I expect that I could sell most of my gear (perish the thought) for pretty much what I paid for it and more in some cases.
 
pohaku said:
Umm, with the exception of the FMR Audio RNP, the Toft (mostly because of the EQ) and maybe the SPL Goldmike (with which I'm not that familiar, but SPL makes some decent stuff), IMHO I don't think the other units you have listed are sufficiently better than or different enough from the firepod pres to be worth buying.
I agree with this.

Spend your money on one or two really classy channels rather than just bying loads of prosumer channels that will all sound pretty much the same or at best subtley different shades of average.
 
pohaku said:
Umm, with the exception of the FMR Audio RNP, the Toft (mostly because of the EQ) and maybe the SPL Goldmike (with which I'm not that familiar, but SPL makes some decent stuff), IMHO I don't think the other units you have listed are sufficiently better than or different enough from the firepod pres to be worth buying. With your budget, and the fact that you have pres with the firepod, I'd rather get fewer channels of really good pres that will make a difference and that I won't "outgrow" and feel compelled to replace later on.

I would think you should be able to pick up a DAV BG1 locally for a pretty good price (they are made in the UK and I expect used ones should be fairly available) which should cover clean and transparent really well. Then I'd look for either a good real tube preamp (no starved plate designs) like a Peavey VMP-2, a Sebatron, an A-Designs MP-2 or maybe the SPL unit, or a good used two channel solid state preamp like a Great River MP2-NV or a Neve Portico, or even two channels of Chameleon Labs 7602.

These are pres that are more likely to meet your needs over the long haul. They should also hold their resale value better than the cheaper units. Buying used if you can will help on the cost front. I've equipped my studio primarily with used equipment and have done pretty well. I expect that I could sell most of my gear (perish the thought) for pretty much what I paid for it and more in some cases.
I know this is probably a stupid question, but with tube preamps, do they all add a different sound to the recording, or do all tube sound sound qutie similar. If this is so, then would i be better off getting a cheaper tube? Also I've seen tube mics, do these work better with tube preamps? Can you use normal condensers and dynamics with them? I know that i seem like a noob, but I've had a few years experience with the preamps on desks and just normal dynamic and condenser mics, but have never had the chance with a tube. At college we just use the preamps in the 02R96, or the control24. We never really get taught about outboard preamps, and especially never about tube.
 
No, tube pres are associated with 'warmer' more coloured sounds but you can get pretty clean tube pres. There's quite a variation.

Proper tube designs throw quite a bit of voltage through the tubes which is what coaxes the harmonic funkiness out of them and gives you a nice musical sound.

Most cheap tube pres are referred to as 'starved plate' because the tubes aren't driven by high voltages. It's really just manufacturers cashing in on the 'vintage' fad and chucking a valve in there so they can bang on about "vintage analogue warmth" in the marketing bumph.

Pres like the VMP-2 and Sebatron that have been mentioned are proper tube designs hence they're quite expensive.

And no, tube mics aren't necessarily 'better matched' to tube pres. Tube pres are fine with any type of mic, it's just an amplifier when you think about it. And vice versa; tube mics are fine with solid state pres.
 
pohaku said:
Umm, with the exception of the FMR Audio RNP, the Toft (mostly because of the EQ) and maybe the SPL Goldmike (with which I'm not that familiar, but SPL makes some decent stuff), IMHO I don't think the other units you have listed are sufficiently better than or different enough from the firepod pres to be worth buying. With your budget, and the fact that you have pres with the firepod, I'd rather get fewer channels of really good pres that will make a difference and that I won't "outgrow" and feel compelled to replace later on.

I would think you should be able to pick up a DAV BG1 locally for a pretty good price (they are made in the UK and I expect used ones should be fairly available) which should cover clean and transparent really well. Then I'd look for either a good real tube preamp (no starved plate designs) like a Peavey VMP-2, a Sebatron, an A-Designs MP-2 or maybe the SPL unit, or a good used two channel solid state preamp like a Great River MP2-NV or a Neve Portico, or even two channels of Chameleon Labs 7602.

These are pres that are more likely to meet your needs over the long haul. They should also hold their resale value better than the cheaper units. Buying used if you can will help on the cost front. I've equipped my studio primarily with used equipment and have done pretty well. I expect that I could sell most of my gear (perish the thought) for pretty much what I paid for it and more in some cases.
I've looked into all the ones you suggested. Some are just way out of my league, and some i just can't find. I read about the DAV BG1, and i like everything apart from the bit, on soundonsound, where it says only professionals with professional equipment should use it. It outputs at +20dB, and the ESI ESP1010 inputs at -10dB, max +6dB.

I know this is a lot to ask but could someone explain a bit about a preamp. I know i should go into detail about what i wanna know, but i really don't know what i wanna know. All i really know is that It boosts the signal from the mic, some add colour, and some don't. Some are very quiet and some add some noise.

If this is too much to ask, can you link to a few pages? Should i just search this forum?
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
No, tube pres are associated with 'warmer' more coloured sounds but you can get pretty clean tube pres. There's quite a variation.

Proper tube designs throw quite a bit of voltage through the tubes which is what coaxes the harmonic funkiness out of them and gives you a nice musical sound.

Most cheap tube pres are referred to as 'starved plate' because the tubes aren't driven by high voltages. It's really just manufacturers cashing in on the 'vintage' fad and chucking a valve in there so they can bang on about "vintage analogue warmth" in the marketing bumph.

Pres like the VMP-2 and Sebatron that have been mentioned are proper tube designs hence they're quite expensive.

And no, tube mics aren't necessarily 'better matched' to tube pres. Tube pres are fine with any type of mic, it's just an amplifier when you think about it. And vice versa; tube mics are fine with solid state pres.
Does the SPL Goldmike come under the proper tube design? It says this "The amplification chain features matched ECC 83 vacuum tubes, powered by a separate 250-volt supply - true high voltage tube operation is essential if the tubes are to function correctly and deliver their characteristically 'open' sonic character. " on their site.
 
The goldmike is a funny one, by all accounts it's a 'hybrid' design so sort of part solid state part valve design.

A couple of people who's opinions I respect have said it's a nice pre though.
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
The goldmike is a funny one, by all accounts it's a 'hybrid' design so sort of part solid state part valve design.

A couple of people who's opinions I respect have said it's a nice pre though.
That's great to know. I will seriously consider that, and for £272.55 :D

What are your opinions on the FMR Audio RNP? I've read a bit, and it seems to be quite a nice preamp, but what do i know? :D
 
Just been thinking. Should i get the M-Audio Delta 1010, instead of the ESI ESP1010? It is more expensive, but it is switchable between -10dB and +4dB. The +4dB, it says, has a peak of +20.2dB, which would allow for the preamps which output this high. It has has all the TRS I/Os at the back, which will keep the place tidier, and it is also compatible with ProTools Mpowered which will help with college studies.
 
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