yamaha aw2816 vs 4416

B

burgundyband

New member
I just picked up the yamaha 2816 and think it's great. I read the the dsp chips are better on the 2816 than the 4416. Otherwise, the 4416 has 16 individual faders, meter bridge, and sampling pads. I am wondering if there are any other differences and if anyone thinks it is worth an extra $500 for the 4416.

Thanks.
 
ps-green hornet: you should work for yamaha. your enthusiasm on the product was one of the deciding factors over other daw's(plus the moving faders and 24 bit on 16 channels)

thanks again.
 
Yo BurgundyBand or {WINE?}:}

Yamaha is, while I post, doing upgrades on the 4416 to give it the same uplifts that come on the 2816.

I don't work for Yamaha but I should. I'm a retired English Composition teacher and I'm sure I could do a much better job on the manuals. I just believe that Yamaha believes the only folks who buy these units are engineers!

This is my third Yamaha recorder; in between there were two Tascam 488's but they, of course were not digital.

Hope you read page 12 in the "thick" instruction manual for the 2816 -- REQUIRES THAT YOU SHUT DOWN THE UNIT IN A SEQUENCE OF STEPS OR YOU MIGHT DAMAGE THE HARD DRIVE.

If you go to the Yamaha site on the net and fill out their registration form, they will send you a free video for operating the 2816 or 4416.

When I got my unit, the vendor was hot to sell me the "upgrade" 4416. Harder unit to run and I don't think for most purposes it can do any more than the 2816, especially as far as sound quality.

How about posting me via E-mail some simplified steps for recording, mixing, and then going to CD, if you've gone that far.


Good luck and I'm sure we will both enjoy the units, eventually.
That old learning curve you know.


Green Hornet
Benmocini@aol.com
 
my personal comparison shopping

right now i'm just fiddling with the preset song and being hypnotized by the motorized faders.

I also like the fact that i can use it as a controller for cubase vst32. I don't think I need Houston now.

I originally picked up a Korg D12 and was happy with the simplicity, but just wanted more tracks. Very close to deciding on the Korg D1600 until reading the BBS.

They gave me shitty headphones in the store to listen to both, but the Korg did sound tinny as opposed to the Yamaha. Granted the Korg was playing back 16 bit as opposed to the yamaha's 24 bit, but I like the ability to keep everything at 24 until mixdown. They are both the same price when you add Korg's CD burner anyway.

If you want super ease of use, the Korg D1600 looks like it, plus you can use a full 16 tracks and then mix down to 2 virtual tracks; very good idea.

The Akai DPS16 is easy to operate as well, but you have to use two tracks to mix down to, meaning you only have 14 out of 16 tracks to use.

The Rolands I avoided because I don't like the idea of shared track faders, plus I hear a lot of people feel the user interface is difficult.

The Yamaha may only have eight faders, but you only need to press the 9-16 key to get to them and then the faders move automatically in place. No shared faders (Very Cool). Expansion slots mean this unit is compatible with everything like my ADAT.
I can't wait fore the waves Y56k card to come in. Looks very promising. I thought it would be difficult after many reviws I have read, but I feel it is worth the effort to figure it out. Looks like I can have a nice campfire with that enclosed French manual though.

The only thing I wish the Yamaha had though was the ability to edit the audio while it was playing or a scrub feature. These are on the other daw's I mentioned. I can't wait

I will probably look at the alesis masterlink for mastering since I hear the mastering in these daw's are nothing to write home about.

Green Hornet-did you get the tutorial tape yet? If so, how long did it take. I just registered mine yesterday. I considered the aw4416 mostly for the meter bridge and the extra expansion slot. I'm very happy with the 2816 though.
 
Yo Burgundy Band:

Nope! I did not get the video instructional tape yet; however, Yamaha isn't too fast about those things. I have, however, received some fast answers to questions from Yamaha about this unit, before I bought it, and other related questions via E-mail.

If you read the the manuals closely, you will very clearly see that the writer is writing in English but thinking in Japanese. Typical of Yamaha manuals.

Well, when you get something on CD, be sure and send me a copy, or even on cassette tape via CD transfer.

I do think that you will get a good CD master from the DAW because it seems to have all of the tools to do so. Maybe not?

Keep in touch.

Green Hornet


:D :p :D
 
Thge only real differences between the $$16 and the 2816 as far as I can see
- 16 channel faders as opposed to the 8
- 2 expansion slots as oppoised to the 1
- The AW4416 can accept a mouse (which is very handy)

It really depends on exactly what you are looking for. I bought the 4416 before the 2816 came out, but would still have gone with the 4416 now. I like the idea of having a fader for each channel. It really comes down to what you need from your system. I also like the idea of 2 expansion slots. ATM I have the MY8AD, but down the track might add the new Waves card (which can work with the MY8AD...Some cards won't work with the Waves card apparently)

It all comes down to your personal needs, but both machines are incredible...either way you cannot lose


`Link
 
Yo Link:

Glad you said both machines are "incredible."

As I've read, the 2816 has some software in it that is now available, free I think, for all 4416 owners.

I bought the 2816 after much research because it is "supposed" to be easier to operate than the 4416. But, I'm still reading the manual.

I did come to a conclusion after reading the manual, the thick one, the other day, that about 80 pages of this manual have no impact on my use of the machine.

I don't use midi to record and the manual assumes that "everyone" uses midi. Also, I overdub a great deal and have clients who sing to CD background music; so, I usually do not use two mics at once and the manual assumes, or the engineer who wrote it assumes, that's what "everyone" does.

But, with shared ideas from people like you folks, I'm sure I'll get the hang of the box soon. I'm still waiting for the video. If you have the video, is it helpful?

Enjoy the season,
Green Hornet






:D :D :p
 
One of the only other differences I can think of between the 2 machines is that the 2816 comes standard with a 20 gig drive, while the 4416 comes with a 12 gig drive. maybe the 4416 comes with the 20 gigger now??
 
Yo Link:

When you burn a CD with your 4416, can you burn like one or two songs and then stop and go back to that CD and burn more songs later?

If so, when do you finalize the CD? After each song or when the CD is completely burned?

Thanks,
Green Hornet
 
Hey Hornet,
Finalize after your last song is burned. If you finalize prior to that then you run the chance of making a coaster. Remember that your Finalize function truncates the 8 LSB if you have been recording in 24 bit mode. If you want to learn how to use it quicker, try to get a sales person to give you a demo. Sometimes watching can teach you more, faster, thats why that 69 positions book has pictures and not diagrams and text. I wish the aw4416 had knobs for eq's and effects. I wish I had money for either.


Peace,
Dennis
 
Hey Atomic One:

I thank you for that bit of information because I'm pretty new with this DAW 2816. As I figure it out from the "terrible" manual, it is a PC with a digital recording program in it. But it's beginning to make sense, thanks to you people out there and your willingness to share your expertise. I really appreciate that.

You're right about a demo. But, here in Grand Rapids, there are really no stores that handle this type of gear. Full Compass is bit too far for me to travel; but, I'm looking for local help. I'm sure things will get ironed out.

From all reports, both the 2816 and 4416 are pretty good boxes.

As I recall, when I got my Yamaha DX7 keyboard, it took me three years to figure out how it worked, plus many, many additional manuals for dummies. I think the 2816 is too new for one of those dummy manuals; however, I'm sure it's coming.


Thanks again,
Green Hornet:D :D :p
 
yep...you can walk away from a CD you've byrned only a few songs onto, and then come back to it whenever you want and burn some more songs.

Basically FINALIZING is the last process the CD has to go through before it can be played in a domestic CD player, so you definitely DO NOT wanna finalize after every song. Once you've finalized a CD, no more audio can be burned to the disc

:D Hope this helps
LinkFX
 
Yo LINK:

I'm glad you're not the "missing Link."

Thanks man for the input. I'll need more "little" tips like that as I go along so that, later, I'll be able to give back the same information to this site.

Gracias,

Green Hornet
 
Originally posted by The Green Hornet



I don't work for Yamaha but I should. I'm a retired English Composition teacher and I'm sure I could do a much better job on the manuals. I just believe that Yamaha believes the only folks who buy these units are engineers!


Yes, Yamaha's manuals could use some help. IMO, they certainly would benefit from having more extensive "how to" sections for the people to whom recording is fairly new.


Hope you read page 12 in the "thick" instruction manual for the 2816 -- REQUIRES THAT YOU SHUT DOWN THE UNIT IN A SEQUENCE OF STEPS OR YOU MIGHT DAMAGE THE HARD DRIVE.


I hadn't heard this. A lot of AW4416 users had requested that Yamaha add a option to the shut down page that would allow you to shut down without saving the current song. This way, if you had made changes that you didn't want to keep, you had the option. The solution (at least on the AW4416) is to just get to the shutdown screen, make sure the HDD red LED indicator isn't flashing, and just hit the power switch - no harm comes to the unit. The AW machines are VERY similar in most fundemental and functional aspects. I own two AW4416's - I had one of the first 50 in the USA. I was also the first person in the world (according to Yamaha's knowledge, and from reports on the unofficial AW4416 / AW2816 users group) to digitally cascade and sync two units. I was also a beta tester for the Waves Y56K card and the AW4416 version 2.0 software.... I don't have a AW2816, but John Schauer from Yamaha USA brought one over to the studio for me to check out about two weeks before they started shipping them out to the stores. I have written articles on disabling the CD-RW drive fan to reduce noise that Yamaha referrs customers to. I've written sync articles on hooking the AW series machines to your computer. IOW, I know a little bit about these machines...


When I got my unit, the vendor was hot to sell me the "upgrade" 4416. Harder unit to run and I don't think for most purposes it can do any more than the 2816, especially as far as sound quality.


As far as sound quality, they're identical. As far as functionality and user interface, they're dang near to identical, as long as the 4416 has the 2.0 software. If you're comfortable on one, you can easily use the other. The "new features" of the 2816 are all on the 4416 with the new software. IOW, the 4416 isn't any more difficult to operate... unless you consider it to be so because it has an extra card slot and two additional aux sends and the extra routing that corresponds with those features.

The differences:

The AW2816 uses a new DSP chip - no difference in sound and the two different DSP chips are transparent to the user.

The AW4416 has 8 aux sends - the AW2816 has 6

The 4416 has the sample pads - the 2816 doesn't (no real loss there IMO)

The 4416 has a mouse port, while the 2816 does not.

The AW4416 has 44 mixer channels (16 recorder playback, and 24 which are user selectable from the 8 analog inputs, two card slots, sample pads, S/PDIF digital input etc.) as well as two stereo effects returns.

The AW2816 has 28 mixer channels (16 recorder playback, and 8 which are user selectable from the 8 analog inputs, one card slot, S/PDIF digital input etc.) as well as two stereo effects returns.

The effects returns on the 4416 are on linear faders... on the 2816, they're on rotary pots.

SUMMARY: Both units are very capable machines that are capable of doing first class recordings if the operator does his / her part. The 4416 is the better choice if you need more simultaneous mixer channels - say, for those with a lot of MIDI modules they want to plug in, or for people who need to mic up a lot of instruments simultaneously (such as tracking an entire rhythm section all at one with multiple drum mics, guitar, bass, jeyboards, whatever). If you want to use a ADAT, external hard disk recorder or your computer for more simultaneous tracks, the extra card slot on the AW4416 means you can get a maximum of 32 tracks - 16 internal and 16 incoming via lightpipe or TDIF cards - You can only get 24 tracks with a AW2816.

Also, if you wish to transfer all the tracks at one into your computer DAW for editing (and computer DAW editing is MUCH more powerful than the onboard editing of ANY stand alone "studio in a box" hard disk recorder) you can transfer all 16 tracks in a single pass with the 4416 - you'd have to transfer twice to do so with the 2816 - it can only do 8 tracks at a time because of the card slot limitation.

Both are great machines... your needs insofar as mixer channels should be the main determining factor in deciding which one to get. That, and finances - the 4416 runs about $500 more in the USA than the 2816. Are the extra features important enough to you to justify that extra cost? Only you can decide.

Here's a couple of links you may want to check out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/aw4416 The unofficial AW4416 / AW2816 mail group

http://www.socialentropy.com/aw4416 The unofficial AW user's site



Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
http://www.ssrstudio.com
pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com
 
Yo Phil:

Thanks for all the input. It would seem like you know the machinations of the 4416 backwards and forward.

I'm still waiting for a video from Yamaha which might clarify some operational moves on my 2816.

I've been through three types of multitrack boxes and I'm fluent with the DX7; so, all I need, really, are some simple steps that make sense rather than the Yamaha manual which keeps interrupting itself for these "tips."

Someone should put out a simple basic set of steps for doing some tracks, mixing them down, and then going to CD. I don't think a two inch thick manual works for many folks. Especially true if the buyer isn't doing midi.

I noted one comment in my manual that says, paraphrasing, "we hope you will experiment with the many other ways you can record using the 2816...." Bah, humbug! Tell me the easy ways.

I like to overdub so what I'd be doing when I get going, is to do the drum machine and chords, play them back and go on from there. Or, I might insert a CD background track for a vocalist. So, I'm not really grooving sound tracks for movies or hooking on to 32 more tracks.

Sure appreciate your commentary and hope to learn more from you.

Merry Christmas
Green Hornet
 
Yo Link, O'Keefe, Atomic man, etc.:]

Today I turned on the 2816 and, after a few stumbles, bumbles, and fumbles, I put some music from a cassette onto the hard drive. This music is background for a client who will later add the vocals.

Wow. What a nice sound, even from a cassette.

Clear and rich. I'm happy with the results of my first swim into the windows and menus of the 2816.

If I had an hourly tutor, it would probably take me about 3 hours to understand the entire unit. It's a shame Yamaha can't put out a manual that isn't so ambiguous and side-stepping as the current manual.

I hope someone from Yamaha reads this post.

The unit is great -- it just takes some concentrated effort to get to and through its machinations.

I did note some similarities between the MD8 and the 2816, like putting marks in between songs or certain spots of need.
Record controls and go back are pretty standard.

Thanks for all the input and if any of you guys finds a "tip" which makes it "easy" to do something, please send it along to me via E-mail as I'll get it faster that way.

Happy New Year
Green Hornet
 
I'll be wanting to hear from you guys later, mines on it's way. It seems as though I've found someone with post knowledge with the 2816. So ,you'll be hearing from me(D. Hunter),real soon. Peace......
 
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