Midi audio tempo adjustments

J

johngrant

New member
Ableton, Sonar, Cubase, Reaper, Logic, etc... all have the capacity to "WARP" audio to fit midi tempos.

VICE VERSA ... most software will ALSO allow you to change MIDI tempos to fit an audio track, or part of an audio track.

Problem is: only Cubase, as far as I can tell, does the second thing--modifying midi tempos to fit an audio track--really well. I'm a Sonar man, but I have purchased Cubase in the past, and my old Cubase software (so old I can't run it on my current system), allowed me to change midi tempo, in tiny, very precise tempo changes, from beat to beat.

Can't find a LESS EXPENSIVE sequencer or plug that will alter midi tempos by very precise degrees, FROM NOTE TO NOTE. Sonar, which I own, will allow me to tap in tempo changes, but that's just not terribly accurate, not nearly as precise as the Cubase "hitpoint"-based approach that I remember using on my Cubase 5.

SOOO.... The question is....

Does anyone know of a midi/audio plugin that will allow me to make a precise midi tempo map based on an audio file???? I really don't want to purchase a brand new Cubase 7 package, plus the dongle (I've lost mine).
 
MIDI works so different from audio, I am confused by the question. For example, when I have audio, say at 120 BPM, then I drag in a MIDI file, the file pretty much sets itself to the project tempo. If not, there should be some sort way to change the tempo for that file to that of the project tempo.

However, if it is in a different time signature, you will have more than just tempo issues. If you could explain what you are trying to do and maybe more assistance can be provided.

There should be a way to set that tempo and since MIDI has been around for a long time, I would be surprised this functionality hasn't been there for many years.
 
Setting tempo in midi is NO PROBLEM.

But setting the tempo of a midi track to exactly match and audio track is HARD. That's because of the constantly changing tempo of well... most audio tracks.

Cubase uses something called "time warp". TWO steps, really. First, time warp highlights all the "transients" (high amplitudes) in your audio file that happen when, for example, a piano note is struck. So you get all these lines drawn in your audio file ("hitpoints") that start at the beginning of every discernable beat. Second step, Cubase lets you adjust the tempo track of the midi file IN SEGMENTS AS LARGE OR SMALL AS YOU WANT so that the tempo track of the midi file ends up looking like as series of ups and downs as the midi tempo constantly changes to FIT the beats (or "transients") in the audio track.

Sorry... that's a layman's definition of the process.

Folks that use midi drum tracks would know what I'm referring to... I think. You basically have a pre-existing audio track that you want your midi drum track to "FIT" or "MATCH UP" to. So that drum track needs a tempo that goes faster or slower, constantly changing tempo, so as not to fall behind, or get ahead of, the tempo of the audio track.
 
Yes, I use MIDI all of the time, mainly drum tracks and have also used it in mixing audio loops.

But what it sounds like is the problem is your analog recording is inconsistent. If you are trying to bring in a loop from somewhere else, you will need to warp the audio and bring it in line to the tempo, or another tool if your software has it is to use a groove tool. Which determines, as best it can, how the analog is being played (timing variations based on real playing).

If that is true, then you have one of three options, play MIDI sounds in real time and do not quantize, leaving the flaws in (or in this case, the recorded timing), warp the analog to match the project time, or if you have the tool, detect the groove, set that groove to your MIDI file.
 
Just to clarify. Situation is 2 sound sources, one a midi track, the other an audio track. Problem to be solved is: how to I get them to play in sync? Answer 1: warp (adjust the speed and or timing of the AUDIO track to fit the midi track). Answer 2. adjust the timing of the MIDI tempo track.

I'm going for solution "2" because it fits what I'm trying to do. David calls it like this: "dedect the groove (in the audio track), set that groove to your MIDI file (adjust the tempo track of the midi file to fit the audio track).

Problem is, is it only CUBASE (VST to 7.5) that has a really super-nuanced way of accomplishing this? .. meaning it's the only program where you can match the groove of the audio file BEAT BY BEAT to the audio file (producing a pretty complex-looking tempo track, but a complexity that's necessary to get the midi dead on tight with the audio track beat)???
 
Ableton has it, "detect groove", then apply it to the MIDI. But it is not cheap. It seems other programs do it as well. Try search for a groove detecting tool that acts like a VST or works alone. Many of the paid DAWs have it, but a quick search did not yield anything that I could see, but did not do an exhaustive search.
 
johngrant said:
meaning it's the only program where you can match the groove of the audio file BEAT BY BEAT to the audio file (producing a pretty complex-looking tempo track, but a complexity that's necessary to get the midi dead on tight with the audio track beat)???
Click to expand...

My mistake! I SHOULD have said: Cubase is the only program I know where you can match the groove of the MIDI file BEAT BY BEAT to tempo of the audio file!!!

Anyhow: My experience is that pretty much all sequencers (Sonar for sure, I own it) will do a down-and-dirty midi-audio tempo match by altering the midi tempo track. But if they're like Sonar, the result is pretty imprecise.

I have a feeling only Cubase has the software to do a really precise matching. Money. Money. Money. And of course I've lost my dongle; so that would have to be replaced, as well.
 
I've never done it, but I know there's a way to do it in Reaper. IDK if maybe it's part of the SWS extensions, which is kind of a third party (free, user generated) add-on, but I know people do it.
 
Funny you should mention Reaper. Just checking out the demo as I write. Yup... looks like midi tempo to audio groove is practically built right into the program. Actually, if you're into MIDI: Reaper looks, at first glance, like it's just light years ahead of the competition (I emphasize, for midi, that is). While it's not as simple as my Sonar pro, it looks much, much more useful. The layout is fantastic: tempo tracks are linked directly to the piano roll, stuff like that.
 
Interesting thread, and it's something I've been trying to do 'successfully' for some time with orchestral tracks, where 'the beat' is not easily detectable.

I tried Reaper, but I find it difficult to use (I'm getting old).
The other program I've been more successful with (little talked about generally) is Zynewave's Podium.

It's an unconventional GUI when one first starts a project, incorporating a MIDI file and a wav to 'sync' it to, but I'm starting to get results.
There is a free version to try out. Limited, I believe, to 30 days. Not sure about this as I licensed it after a couple of weeks.

Any good?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top