whats a good mic to monitor a live band??

6

60ndown

New member
i dont want to be at the mercy of the sound guy when playing live (if he tweaks anything while we play im stuck with what he gives me),

id like to place a mic or 2 kind of on the stage, in front of a couple of the guitar amps so i can hear what the guitarists are playing and a little of what the singers are singing, basically a little of everything.

i run those mics into my little personalmixer and into my headphones, i control volume and mix

what kind of mics will work best in this application?
 
Why not just tell the sound guy what it is you want in your monitor mix.
You should be working together as a team.
Putting mics on the stage could cause feedback problems idk .
 
60ndown said:
i dont want to be at the mercy of the sound guy when playing live
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i don't want to sound grumpy, so i apologise if that's how you take it, but using the term "mercy" makes it sound like you think FoH engineers are scary, aggressive, dictators. As kip said, in a live performance the musicians and the engineers need to work as a team. the sound engineer wants the best possible sound out front that they can achieve and will strive to make all the musicians playing on stage as comfortable as possible, they are not there to make it sound crappy or make you look amateurish and it is important to have some faith in their abilities in the same way that the sound engineer has faith that you can play/tune your instrument. i've not yet met in 12 years of live performance an engineer who has been offended if i ask for little bit more or less of something in my monitor, and in 10 years of doing FoH sound i've only once been offended by someone asking for more of something in their wedge; i was offended not because of the request, but of his attitude towards it. we're all suppose to be on the same team!

if, for whatever reason, you still distrust FoH engineers then there are some alternatives, the easiest and cheapest being something like this; BEHRINGER: MA400 which is a personal headphone amp aimed at vocalists. you can plug a mic into it, and it has a through so the signal can still go through to the FoH and it has a "monitor" input so rather than having your monitor mix in the monitor speakers, you can have it straight into your headphones and create you own mix of monitor mix and direct mic.
 
Lol people like this are why I hate doing live sound! I agree with Kip....it's a team effort. Just get the monitor mix right during rehearsal. Simple as that.
 
im not trying to be an ass here, but text on pages often gets mis understood ;)


in the last 25 years, every live show ive ever been too (except one) has been 'way too loud' and 'lacking in quality' in my opinion.

id take half the volume and twice the sq every time,

but no, its gotta be as loud as the system will do *just before clipping* even if its a 100 person venue and he has 10k :D


if a person does this, i cant trust that they will do the right thing for my monitor, the mix might be good when we start, but if he bumps a dial/slider on the desk reaching for his beer while distracted by some female interest, hes not going to know, or care what im hearing for the next hour or more.

as with all things, the more i can take control of the better things are it seems.
 
Time to pay for your own sound guy who is basically a member of the band and knows what you are after.

Then you can stop using the under paid, over worked, burned out, house engineers that often have to put up with several bands a night all with different wish lists and ideas that you have to understand in the 15 mins between band changeovers.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Time to pay for your own sound guy who is basically a member of the band and knows what you are after.

Alan.
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I think anyone serious about music is after the same thing, quality balanced sound,

if we 'the band' ever start getting paid, we would pay someone to do our sound,

but i fear we are all destined to do this for just the love of the music.

why a person would regularly show up and be the sound guy if he wasnt happy to be there i dont know?

when im not happy about a situation, i leave....
 
60ndown said:
I think anyone serious about music is after the same thing, quality balanced sound,

if we 'the band' ever start getting paid, we would pay someone to do our sound,

but i fear we are all destined to do this for just the love of the music.

why a person would regularly show up and be the sound guy if he wasnt happy to be there i dont know?

when im not happy about a situation, i leave....
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Fair enough, but to answer the 2 points:

A sound guy may keep working while not happy due to having to eat and pay the rent. It's usually when the dream becomes reality. It has happened to me in the past where I have just got stuck in a crap situation, however in my case I always tried to give the band the best I could do with what I had to work with, even if some of the bands behaviour and attitudes did not deserve this. In all the years I did (sometimes still do) live sound, I never drank alcohol at gigs and always gave my 100% attention to the sound, my hand never left the faders.

If you can't pay a sound guy, why not hook up with one the 1000's of sound guys out there that are trying to get into the business and may to do your sound for free. You may find someone that is very into what you are doing, and the lack of their experience will be made up by their enthusiasm to learn and the time they can spend with you to find out what your needs are. Make it up to them by giving them some pay when you get payed.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Pretty much every medium or large concert system uses a split snake arrangement on stage with one tail to the FOH mixer and the other to a monitor mixer, with two separate sound guys to handle the different mixers. There is no need to use separate mics. You can do a similar thing with a mic splitter and your mixer. It will be totally independent of the house system as far as levels and eq. But if there is feedback it will get into your system just as much as the main system. And you might want to look into getting proper IEMs so you don't have to wear clunky headphones on stage.
 
witzendoz said:
If you can't pay a sound guy, why not hook up with one the 1000's of sound guys out there that are trying to get into the business and may to do your sound for free. You may find someone that is very into what you are doing, and the lack of their experience will be made up by their enthusiasm to learn and the time they can spend with you to find out what your needs are. Make it up to them by giving them some pay when you get payed.

Cheers
Alan.
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i like that idea, im going to put an add on craigslist now, thanks :)
 
ok here's what i believe to be a great example of what i have been talking about,

our band played live on saturday night, a good venue with a good PA / equipment.

here is an audio clip of the band playing in a rehearsal studio, recorded live on my ($120 used e bay) digital 4 track recorder using mediocre mics and my limited mastering skills, for 15 seconds then i added 15 seconds of the sound recorded live on saturday with the foh 'sound guy' running the expensive board, amps and speakers.

the sound live is HORRIBLE in my opinion, all mids and snare drum, no real lows or bass, and where are the guitars??

sound example by meuwzikizlife on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 
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tbh, neither one sound particularly great but the second half sounds like a more balanced mix and sounds like most bootleg recordings of gigs i've heard over the years. this is by no means a critique or reflection of your recording/mixing skills; both sound like a band in a room, but the second half sounds like a much better balance.

if you think it sounds horrible or really aren't convinced that the sound guys are doing a good job, do what most people do; make sure you have a long guitar cable or wireless system and during soundcheck walk off the stage into where the audience will be whilst playing to see what it sounds like to your ears. or, as others have suggested, find yourself your own sound guy who you trust to do the sound at all of your gigs.
 
Neither one sounds that great or that horrible for a mic in the room. I'm hearing a lot of room effect in both. And you can't totally rely on a microphone to tell you what it sounds like to people.

If you don't like the mix either work it out with the guy mixing or bring your own sound person. If you want to mix your own monitors get a split and use the mics that are already there.
 
you dont think the snare is about 40% too high in the mix on the sound guys mix?... seriously?? balanced???


im ok with my mix being off, im extremely new to multitrack recording and mastering, and im using very basic equipment,

but if i had a good foh system to play with i wouldnt make the band sound like an AM radio.

another detail is that the band that came on after us i listened to, they suffered the same sound guy, they also were all mid/mid bass, nothing below 70 hz, and zero sparkle.sounds to me like he used no frequencies in the mix below 70 hz or above 7000 AND boosted 250hz by 30 db = almost instantaneous listener fatigue.

all anyone has to do is click either side of the soundcloud link 'midpoint' back and fourth a few times quickly to go from my mix to his and the difference is very obvious.

our bass player has beautiful equipment, and gets awesome tone, there is no bass guitar on the live mix.

and it was all waaaaaaaaaaaaay too loud.

/rant... maybe ;)

maybe i should consider getting a job as the local sound guy?


Justsomeguy said:
tbh, neither one sound particularly great but the second half sounds like a more balanced mix and sounds like most bootleg recordings of gigs i've heard over the years. this is by no means a critique or reflection of your recording/mixing skills; both sound like a band in a room, but the second half sounds like a much better balance.

if you think it sounds horrible or really aren't convinced that the sound guys are doing a good job, do what most people do; make sure you have a long guitar cable or wireless system and during soundcheck walk off the stage into where the audience will be whilst playing to see what it sounds like to your ears. or, as others have suggested, find yourself your own sound guy who you trust to do the sound at all of your gigs.
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60ndown said:
you dont think the snare is about 40% too high in the mix on the sound guys mix?
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the snare is the only thing that pops out as being out of place, but even then it's only the last 5 seconds or so that you really notice it, and even then theres a lot more drums in the second half than the first where there is no snare or kick so it may also be exaggerated as you hear 15 seconds of no drums and then 15 seconds with drums the drums naturally jump out.

Also, bare in mind, if you fill a room full of people the first thing to disappear is the extreme high end as human bodies physically soak up the high end. granted, most sound guys would compensate for this, but if they do that in sound check most musicians complain that there is too much high end in the mix.

tbh, i'm not gonna stand here and defend sound guys left, right, and centre because i have also played my fair share of crap sounding gigs with ropey sound engineers, but if you're saying that the majority of shows you play don't sound right to you then, as i said before, my advice is 1) check the mix yourself in sound check by walking out into the room and 2) get your own sound guy with his rig that you do trust and 3) communicate with the sound guy in the same way you would with any of your band members
 
All I'll add is I feel your frustration. Many if not most of us likely have. I have seriously considered at times 'here's your two lines for the house.. ;)
I understand the restrictions, limits the sound guys might be facing we wouldn't see or know in a given situation, but really it just seems so bizarre when you see just really basic stuff being missed, ignored..
..no clue? (sometimes it's hard to know which it is kicking in..
 
a lil to cryptic for me, whats the point your making ??



mixsit said:
All I'll add is I feel your frustration. Many if not most of us likely have. I have seriously considered at times 'here's your two lines for the house.. ;)
I understand the restrictions, limits the sound guys might be facing we wouldn't see or know in a given situation, but really it just seems so bizarre when you see just really basic stuff being missed, ignored..
..no clue? (sometimes it's hard to know which it is kicking in..
Click to expand...
 
A mic in the room is a suspect reference point at best. Neither recording sounded great or abnormally off for a rehearsal or small time gig into a mic in the room. That's what you get at small time gigs because there isn't any money in it to draw a decent sound person and for the most part the people listening barely notice any difference. If you want better then get your own sound person and make him part of the band right down to attending rehearsals and learning your particular needs and paying him an appropriate cut of the band's take.
 
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