What is a mic pre amp and Top Condenser mic choice under $300

M

Monkubus325

New member
I'm new to the whole recording process and rather than wade through thousands of threads I thought I'd just ask. What is the role of a mic pre amp? What does it do? How do you use one? and what is a good one I can get for around $100? Another question I have is what is the best condenser mic I can get for recording vocals and acoustic guitar for under $300??


Thanks for the help,

Monkubus
 
Monk, as you know, there are a number of ways to do this as far as possible choices.
Here's what I would do;

If you need two channels of mic pre =M-Audio DMP3.
If you only need one channel =Studio Projects VTB-1.
Try to get the DMP3 at Guitar Center at the Memorial Day Sale
price of $119.
I think the VTB-1 is still $129 at www.digitalproaudio.com
A dedicated outboard mic pre will outperform a (budget) mixer
pre's in terms of delivering a higher quality signal from a microphone.

The Studio Projects B1 is a good sounding vocal microphone,
and based on what others have posted, works well on acoustic
guitar too. If you have access to a nice sounding room, the B3
which has an omni pattern as one of its polar options, would
make sense as a selection.

Two other microphones, to put on your short list for vocal microphones, are the Shure SM57, Electro-Voice EV 635a,
and Electro-Voice RE15 or RE16 (has internal foam pop shield).

The EV 635a and EV RE15 are pretty easy to "place" well as the
635a is an omni, and the RE15 (& RE16) uses "variable-D" design to offset proximity effect. Other than a good condenser, these
would be the first one or two dynamic microphones I'd buy if I
were starting out. Especially if you're playing rock or blues, a SM57 would be great to get familiar with too.
A number of pro singer/acoustic guitarists have used a combination of the EV 635a (on guitar) and SM57 (or RE15)
on vocals, while they are playing or recording live.
Always use a mesh pop screen when recording vocals BTW.

Chris
 
preamp - Delta DMP3 ($119 at GC)

mic- Marshall MXLv67($99) and a MXL603(~$79) and a Studio Projects B1($79).....youll have many possibilities between all 3 and be under the $300 budget...........

or you could blow it all in one with a MXLv77.........
 
Monkubus325 said:
What is the role of a mic pre amp?
Click to expand...

It brings the signal from "microphone level" [usually anywhere from -20 to -60 db] to "line level" [+4 in "pro" world... -10 in "semi-pro" world]

What does it do?
Click to expand...

It's an amplifier... it makes a signal louder. The output of most microphones isn't strong enough to drive most equipment [there are exceptions!!], so by using a mic amp you can bring your level to a point where it will be useable.

How do you use one?
Click to expand...

You plug a microphone into one and send the signal on to the next device in the signal chain...

what is a good one I can get for around $100?
Click to expand...

I don't think there are any "good" ones in the $100 range. There are many that will accomplish the rudimentary purpose of making the signal stronger... but not with anything resembling the panache that is possible with a "good" pre.

what is the best condenser mic I can get for recording vocals and acoustic guitar for under $300??
Click to expand...

Again... there are several that will get the job done... but not with the tone, texture and detail that you will want when you've been doing this for a while.

It seems that since you're new to the craft you might just want to pick yourself up an inexpensive small console, like a Mackie 12x 2 or something... learn to use it, start learning about things like 'signal flow', 'routing', etc.

As your ears and skills develop you will start to hear some of the differences in the tools and through experience you'll start to get a handle on which tools work best in certain applications.

One thing to keep in mind... while boards like these are great for getting a 'starting point' kind of idea... there is a whole lot of bullshit and mythology that surrounds recording equipment.

As you start to develop your ears, as you start to develop your style of working, you'll begin to develop your own sense of what does and what don't work for you in given applications.

Running a 'recording studio', be it a 'commercial' or 'private' studio is for all intents and purposes like learning to play an instrument. While a $15,000 guitar will make a difference to many players, it will be lost on a beginner. The beginner will be well served with a $179 Telecaster from the local 'Banjo-Mart'... but, if that "beginner" sticks with it, learns, evolves, develops as an instrumentalist... somewhere down the road that $15k instrument migh be just the tool that will put their "tone" over the top.

The point I'm making is that there is no "best" anything... and a tool set is only as good as the skill of the operator employing the toolset.

Best of luck with all your endeavors.
 
Gidge said:
preamp - Delta DMP3 ($119 at GC)

mic- Marshall MXLv67($99) and a MXL603(~$79) and a Studio Projects B1($79).....youll have many possibilities between all 3 and be under the $300 budget...........

or you could blow it all in one with a MXLv77.........
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. This is an extremely versatile starter setup, and you should get a lot of mileage out of all that gear.
 
All of the suggestions mentioned above are good ones. The studio projects B1 is a great mic. I've got two of them right now and they're awesome. I just got the C1 about two weeks ago and that thing rocks my face off as well. You can pick one of those up for $199.00 from 8thstreet.com or ebay. The mic preamp that I've been using is the Presonus TubePre. It really adds a lot to the sound and doesn't color the signal too much unlike some tube preamps. I had an ART MP OPL for a little while and it was decent, just a little too noisy for my tastes. Definitely look into the studio projects B1 and, if you've got the cash, go for the C1. It rocks!
 
Gidge said:
preamp - Delta DMP3 ($119 at GC)

mic- Marshall MXLv67($99) and a MXL603(~$79) and a Studio Projects B1($79).....youll have many possibilities between all 3 and be under the $300 budget...........
Click to expand...

I agree with Gidge...... this would be a nice package to start out with.
 
With all due respect, I think it's wise to stear clear of starved plate
tube designs that you can't keep out of the signal path, like
the Presonus Blue Tube or Art MP. If you listen closely, you can hear
the distortion. Not an effect you'd want on everything you're recording
IMHO.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
With all due respect, I think it's wise to stear clear of starved plate
tube designs that you can't keep out of the signal path, like
the Presonus Blue Tube or Art MP. If you listen closely, you can hear
the distortion. Not an effect you'd want on everything you're recording
IMHO.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, please comment on the Studio Projects VTB-1 'while using' the 12AX7 tube blend and a wal-wart power supply... is that not a starved plate also? Thanks.
 
I think the less-experienced ones here should be taking careful notes from Fletcher.

In the $300 and under bracket, strive for functionality. Get stuff that does the job, is reliable, and works. Don't expect anything that will work magic. You might get lucky and find a gem, but keep in mind that there are reasons behind the price differences between a lot of these mics. And the same "you get what you pay for" rules that apply to anything else will usually apply here, too.

Beware of hype and marketing propaganda. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And there are those out there who concern themselves, on a daily basis, with ways to convince you that the magic-bullet exists . . . and that if you buy it your recordings will shine, and it won't cost you much money. The truth of the matter is that the magic bullet does exist; it's called knowlege, and unfortunately you won't find it at Ukalele Center or Sam Ass.

Focus on the fundamentals -- and understand that your room accoustics are going to play a very large role in the quality of your recordings. Undertstand the principles of sound and how it behaves and interacts in your recording and monitoring environment. Be mindful of such issues long-term before you make major purchasing decisions or judgements.
 
With all do repect..... IMO, everyone should pay close attention to what both Fletcher and Chessrock said.
 
DJL, the "tube blend" feature, AKA starved plate, on the VTB-1 is an option. (It was designed deliberately that way)
You can run it pure solid state without it in the signal path.

A Grace 101 mic pre also uses a wall-wart and is reputed to sound excellent. And the (excellent) Fmr. Audio RNC and RNP
both use a wall-wart too. Therefore it's not always a kiss of
sonic death to have one.

Without the "ears" of someone like Fletcher, I would only consider
adding an effect like "tube blend" during mixdown-if at all.
I can tell that the DMP3 is quieter than a Mackie pre, and in turn a
VTB-1 is a bit quieter than the DMP3. (like the DMP3 too though)

Agree with Harvey Gerst's and Steve's reviews, at www.mojopie.com on the VTB-1. They mirror my own listening impressions. Very informative website to check out BTW.

The Shure SM57, EV 635a, and EV RE15 suggestions were based
upon commentary by strong pro engineers like Bob Ohlsson, Scott Dorsey, and... Fletcher! :)

Chris
 
Thanks Chessrock.... yeah, I know... I have two VTB-1's.... I was just wondering if chessparov thought using the tube blend on the VTB-1 was also something to avoid? IMO, I think the tube blend on the VTB-1 sucks... but, other than that it's a pretty clean little budget preamp. Thanks again.
 
Beginning to wonder on these "best under" type threads whether
budgeting for a decent (or better) parametric EQ should be factored in. If you have a limited microphone selection, it seems it would take on a higher priority. Been pleasantly surprised how good a dynamic microphone like a SM57 can sound with one lately.

Something like a DBX 242, or if you can afford it, a Speck ASC,
opens up more creative territory, and could help enhance so-so
acoustics and/or microphone placement IMHO.

Thoughts?

Chris
 
There's nothing inherently wrong with a starved plate design.

But like you say, Chessparov, it's best in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.

There are many renowned engineers who advocate putting various different types of distrtion on many of their tracks from vocals to snare, etc. Most of these guys have a very good idea of the different distortions, what they do, and the effects they'll have when interacting and/or accumulating over several tracks.

The problem is that too many gear manufacturers are using this tool in gear marketed to the clueless, pardon the expression. :D It can be a pretty dangerous weapon in the wrong hands, so I have a tough time advocating anything in the "prosumer" ranks that has it . . . because you and I know that if it's there and it has "tubes" some impressionable newb is going to crank it up. :D

Not to mention the fact that so much of the more experienced engineers talk so negatively about the design, and these are the guys that you say should be the ones administering this stuff. :D

What if a medication you were thinking of taking said: "WARNING: DO NOT TAKE UNLESS ADMINISTERED BY A PHYSICIAN," so you went to every physician in town, and every single one of them told you it was bad for you and advised against taking it?

I suppose all the physicians could be wrong, but what does that say about it?
 
Anytime DJL.
Guess I scored 100% on your little "test".
Except...
I'm "chessparov" not "chessrock" (do we REALLY look alike?!)

Chris
 
chessparov said:
Anytime DJL.
Guess I scored 100% on your little "test".
Except...
I'm "chessparov" not "chessrock" (do we REALLY look alike?!)

Chris
Click to expand...

Oops...... sorry about that.... yeah 100%.

By the way guys, I use distrtion on rock vocals a lot of the time.

I've got to run over to the studio for a while.... but, I'll be back. :D
 
Hey Monkubus325, sorry the subject/thread drifted some... but, you'll get use to it... it happens all the time and can be kind of fun at times too. Anyway, all the above post is this thread should give you some idea's and a good starting point.
 
First, what Gidge said. All excellent choices. I'm not as much behind Chessparov's mic suggestions, and here's why.- Dynamic mics like the SM57 and EV mics mentioned, which are great, cheap, versatile mics, require a very good preamp, something you aren't going to get for $100. A cheap pre will work best with a cheap condenser. That said, all mics require a preamp for basic recording.
Also, be advised that the $119 price mentioned on the M Audio DMP3 is one you're going to have to grind some balls to get. If pressed, they can and will sell it for that price, but their advertised price is $200. I bought one at GC this week for $119.99 (I didn't fight about the .99), but I had to point out that it had been done by other GC's, and name names. You can tell them it was done by Dan at the Natick, Mass. GC on Wednesday
this week. Is it a *great* preamp?-No. But for that price, it's a no-brainer.
Regarding hybrid preamps- These are ones that will proudly proclaim themselves to be "tube" preamps, which is bullshit. A tube has been placed in the front end of a solid state preamp, which can be selectively overdriven to produce variable amounts of distortion. How good (or bad) that will sound depends on the amp's design, the quality of the tube, and the skill of the engineer using it.
The only hybrid pre I own is DBX386, probably one of the better ones as they go. I pretty much leave the "drive" knob, which engages that tube, at 0 for all purposes. The only use we've found for it is one track of bottleneck slide blues lead where we wanted the sound of a real tube amp being somewhat overdriven, and it worked for that.
Also, don't get sucked into the hype that says an amp must have tubes, or it sucks. Some of the finest (and most expensive)preamps in the world are solid state. I'm told that some hybrid designs can be improved by upgrading the tube to a real good one, such as a Mullen, but that's only what I have read.-Richie
 
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