Violin recording
- Thread starter _brian_
- Start date
Well, Im sure you know this, but it isn't going to sound that great no matter what you do. Not-so-great violins tend to sound a little bit like fingernails on a chalk-board. You may be able to avoid this if the player is really solid.
Pessimism aside, I would try the Naiant X-M: http://www.naiant.com/xmspecification.html
I would place the microphone relatively far away from the instrument, then work your way closer or further depending on where it sounds best. If you can afford it, get a pair of the mics and do a spaced omni configuration.
Place the mics in the room where you think it sounds best.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
Yeah, but a decent player and the right set of strings can often make all the difference in the world.
I record violin all the time, and my micing technique varies depending on the sound you have coming from the instrument as well as the sound you are after.
For a fuller less harsh sound try mic it from slightly behind the violinist and to their left shoulder. It will get more of a body sound with the highs coming it reflected and less nasal.
A brighter option is slightly in front of the headstock, adjust the height of the mic from below the body to above to achieve the sound.
I use 2 Kel HM-1s, one behind , one in front and then blend to taste.
For a fuller less harsh sound try mic it from slightly behind the violinist and to their left shoulder. It will get more of a body sound with the highs coming it reflected and less nasal.
A brighter option is slightly in front of the headstock, adjust the height of the mic from below the body to above to achieve the sound.
I use 2 Kel HM-1s, one behind , one in front and then blend to taste.
_brian_
Member
What type of strings would you suggest be better for recording? I'm not wanting a dark gypsy sounding recording, but am limited with the violin being recorded. The most I can do is new strings & microphone.
I'm getting a lot of good advice so far, cheers everyone. The only problem being the kel microphones don't seem to be available in the UK. I can't find them on ebay either.
I started out using naiant a MSH-2 mic, this seemed to bring out all of the wrong characteristics in tembre from the instrument. The instrument & player seem to sound surprisingly good to my ear (hope she reads this
) Just my recordings seem horrid.
up-fiddler
Taming the World--for now
I have had good luck for 'fiddle' music by point a sm57 from behind and over the player and then using my cheapy Avantone ribbon to capture the room.
I have also gotten good results using the Studio Projects T3 about 5 feet out in front and running that through my LA610 but that would be a more expensive route to take.
I have also gotten good results using the Studio Projects T3 about 5 feet out in front and running that through my LA610 but that would be a more expensive route to take.
Brian,
You might want to make a list of the type of mics you have or have available.
Think of mics that are on the dark side of sound. Heck even a fairly full range Kick Drum Mic may be just the thing.
Mics like the Kels are more dark. Ribbon mics are a little darker than most cheaper condenser. Many condensers are overly bright, dynamic mics might work if they don't have a sharp rise at the top of the frequency curve. The problem with dynamic mics will be they won't sound as vibrant because the mic element is heavier and slower to react to transients.
You might want to make a list of the type of mics you have or have available.
Think of mics that are on the dark side of sound. Heck even a fairly full range Kick Drum Mic may be just the thing.
Mics like the Kels are more dark. Ribbon mics are a little darker than most cheaper condenser. Many condensers are overly bright, dynamic mics might work if they don't have a sharp rise at the top of the frequency curve. The problem with dynamic mics will be they won't sound as vibrant because the mic element is heavier and slower to react to transients.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
The strings really have to match the characteristics of the instrument, and in some cases, you may even want to mix a couple different types of strings. I can't give any specific suggestions on violin, as I don't play one, but I can tell you that my Pirastro Aricore strings really brought my plywood Cello to life, IMHO. If you find your violin sounds too edgy and bright, The Aricore strings would be a couple dozen steps back from the edge.
There are others that aren't quite as extreme like Thomastik Dominant (I tried one of those on my Cello after another string broke, which drove me rapidly towards finding better strings because it sounded so much better than the crap strings I had on it) and apparently Pirastro Tonica (which I haven't tried).
Again, though, there's a lot of personal preference involved, and it may take a fair amount of and trial and error to find the right set of strings (or mix of strings), but the first thing I'd do is listen to the tone and see if it sounds too edgy, and if so, experiment with one string (the highest, cheapest string) from Dominant and see if that sounds better, and if it sounds better but doesn't go far enough, try a set of Aricore strings, but if you like the sound as-is on the Dominant string, try a full set of those.
That said, if it sounds good to your ear, it could be that the mic is bringing out some undesirable frequency range. In that case, I'd try a different mic---maybe a ribbon so you can EQ the heck out of it if needed without having any harshness from odd frequency peaks like you'd get with most condensers.
_brian_
Member
Sadly struggling with mics, I only have a couple of the MSH-2 Naiants & a 57 beta & original 57. I'm really wanting to get some more mics & thought that getting a mic dedicated for violin would be a good place to start. I can get a surprisingly good sound out of most other instruments using the afore mentioned mics, a little invention & some eq. Violin just sounds bad though. I've tried recording farther away from the source, it does help a little but not enough. Interesting you talking about using a kick mic... that was next on my list
have a good read through this
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb03/articles/studiosos0203.asp?print=yes
should do the job, talks about mics, mike positioning...
mshilarious
Banned
The MSH-2 is probably the brightest microphone I've made, still less bright than most inexpensive condensers though. It wouldn't be my first choice for violin. That said, as Harvey is fond of pointing out, you don't just have one tone in a mic, you have many if you turn the mic off-axis. So if you need a darker tone, try turning the mic 90 degrees off-axis, and lowering it as suggested by tmix. If that doesn't work, turn it 180 degrees off-axis 
Sounds crazy, but this is an omni mic, so you really only lose above 10kHz, which is probably what you are trying to do.
Sounds crazy, but this is an omni mic, so you really only lose above 10kHz, which is probably what you are trying to do.
DavidK
New member
They are doing wonderful things with softsynths these days.
Don't a-go down that road, you'll be sorry.
If it's a lousy fiddle, it's really like putting lipstick on a pig. Each violin reacts differently to each string, what might sound great on a cheap fiddle might sound horrible on a Strad. I use Dominants merely out of habit, I have been for 30 years. Eudoxas are good but are very expensive. It's a disease for some people, they spend half their lives trying to find the ultimate strings. Anything above "Super-Sensitive" will work fine.EQ and reverb can work miracles. I have improved my recent recordings dramatically with the right eq settings. Most of the surface noise will be in the high frequencies, cut them. Then do a parametric sweep, you can usually find one certain area that has a lot of the noise. Do a small cut there too. For me it's usually in the 1.2-1.4K range.
Make sure any reverb isnt too long, it will get muddy. I use a midsize concert hall setting through a send. Sometimes a short delay might work if you want a churchlike setting.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
If you don't own a ribbon and are looking for a reasonably inexpensive one in the UK, you might consider this one:
http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926&page=gb/the_tbone_rb500.htm
That's pretty much the Nady RSM-2 with a different headbasket shape. IMHO, they do very well at taming sources that need it.
_brian_
Member
I have had some bad experiances with thomann & wont be using them again sadly. I have been looking at mabye buying the CAD Trion 7000 for other sources, I wonder if this would be a good choice for strings?
http://www.cadmics.com/Trion7000.htm
There is no high peak around the higher frequency range & there is quite a bit of highend roll off. Perhaps this would be a good substitute?
http://www.cadmics.com/Trion7000.htm
There is no high peak around the higher frequency range & there is quite a bit of highend roll off. Perhaps this would be a good substitute?
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
Well, that's a dual short ribbon design. It will roll off the high frequencies pretty hard because of the motor design, IIRC. Not sure if that would be good or bad on a violin, as I didn't own any double ribbons the last time I had to mic a violin (and I was doing sound reinforcement outdoors, so I wouldn't have used ribbons anyway). My gut says you'd be better served if you could find one with a 2 inch (5 cm) long ribbon, but that's entirely a gut reaction and could be completely wrong.
guitar junkie
Guitar User.
Get a decent set of strings, nothing fancy but something decent....
If you look at the bow and start to see a lot of missing hair from it, either buy a new bow or get the old one re haired.
One thing that would do the most good for the instrument is to just have a really good tech do a setup, new bridge post and strings and any plaining and adjusting to make the instrument play better...
Then go back and take the instrument and put it in front of even that Beta 57 and see how she sounds.
One of the things I like to do with recording a fiddle is to just set up a good LDC at one end of the room and play standing on the other. If you want the sound more up front start moving closer...
Another trick I have done is to take my mic which was at the time an AT4040 and place it in the corner of the room I was tracking in, with the back of the mic getting two hard surfaces in back of the capsule the pickup pattern added a lot more low mids, and the highs were not slapping around the un treated room.
But really though, Brian if you want to improve the recordings you gotta get a good room and a good source... You might be shocked at what a better setup or even a better instrument will do rather than dropping cash on gear that won't really shine till it has a better source, and a better room.
If you look at the bow and start to see a lot of missing hair from it, either buy a new bow or get the old one re haired.
One thing that would do the most good for the instrument is to just have a really good tech do a setup, new bridge post and strings and any plaining and adjusting to make the instrument play better...
Then go back and take the instrument and put it in front of even that Beta 57 and see how she sounds.
One of the things I like to do with recording a fiddle is to just set up a good LDC at one end of the room and play standing on the other. If you want the sound more up front start moving closer...
Another trick I have done is to take my mic which was at the time an AT4040 and place it in the corner of the room I was tracking in, with the back of the mic getting two hard surfaces in back of the capsule the pickup pattern added a lot more low mids, and the highs were not slapping around the un treated room.
But really though, Brian if you want to improve the recordings you gotta get a good room and a good source... You might be shocked at what a better setup or even a better instrument will do rather than dropping cash on gear that won't really shine till it has a better source, and a better room.
DavidK
New member
Brian is not the fiddle player. That would be like buying me a tune-up and an oil change to drive to work.
General maintenence on any instrument should be a foregone conclusion. If it's not there is little you can do. It's strictly up to the player to pick HER strings, her choice of when to rehair etc. That stuff is not cheap, a bow rehair is $70, strings $50, a setup is hundreds with a new bridge. It's not his responsibility. If the player doesn't keep the instrument in shape there's nothing you can do.Yup. Violins sound like crap in bad rooms. It's just a question of whether he has the means to move to a good room. If not, get a prosumer mic and be done with it. Spend the time on eq and reverb since it's the best solution to a lousy room.