Using a microphone with a drummer

Z

ZJE123

New member
I know this is a recording forum, but I hope I can find some live sound advice. Currently, my band is composed of three people, and the drummer is the lead vocalist because neither me or the guitar player are good enough for lead. Currently we have no money to buy new equipment as most of it was already spent on equipment we thought would work (better mic, pa speaker, ect), so hopefully that is not something we have to do. We currently mic him with a audix OM5 which is unidirectional, and we run it through a Toa RX 31C mixing Console into a Thump TH-12A PA Speaker, which should be loud enough in theory. The basement we practice in is not that large so we pretty much stick the drummer in the corner of the room. I believe the reason why a lot of the drums go through the audix is because the sounds bounce off of the wall behind him however, this is something we can't fix, we really don't have enough space to put him in the middle of the room. Every time we play, we constantly have to turn his mic up on the mixer, but somehow, we can never hear him over everything else. Also, what we do hear from him is really distorted and sounds like a 40s air pilot microphone most likely because it is constantly clipping (there is a red light that warns us of clipping, so that's how we know). Is there some kind of eq-uing or limiter type thing we can do with the mixer or PA speaker that will help us actually hear the drummer? I've heard of people saying gating would be useful, but I'm not even sure if the mixer has one. Any Help will be appreciated! :guitar:
 
ZJE123 said:
I know this is a recording forum, but I hope I can find some live sound advice. Currently, my band is composed of three people, and the drummer is the lead vocalist because neither me or the guitar player are good enough for lead. Currently we have no money to buy new equipment as most of it was already spent on equipment we thought would work (better mic, pa speaker, ect), so hopefully that is not something we have to do. We currently mic him with a audix OM5 which is unidirectional, and we run it through a Toa RX 31C mixing Console into a Thump TH-12A PA Speaker, which should be loud enough in theory. The basement we practice in is not that large so we pretty much stick the drummer in the corner of the room. I believe the reason why a lot of the drums go through the audix is because the sounds bounce off of the wall behind him however, this is something we can't fix, we really don't have enough space to put him in the middle of the room. Every time we play, we constantly have to turn his mic up on the mixer, but somehow, we can never hear him over everything else. Also, what we do hear from him is really distorted and sounds like a 40s air pilot microphone most likely because it is constantly clipping (there is a red light that warns us of clipping, so that's how we know). Is there some kind of eq-uing or limiter type thing we can do with the mixer or PA speaker that will help us actually hear the drummer? I've heard of people saying gating would be useful, but I'm not even sure if the mixer has one. Any Help will be appreciated! :guitar:
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First; the distortion is because of the clipping. Turn down the input gain of his channel so that the clipping light doesn't go on anymore. Then turn up his vulome with the fader of the channel and the overal volume of the mixer, to get the required volume.

The sound bouncing problem can be helped a bit by putting up padding on the wall behind the drummer. You can buy foam pads, but you can also use some thick old curtains if budget is a problem, or egg cartons. You could also put "bass traps" in the corners of the basement, they are expensive, but again, thick curtains can help a bit too. Don't pad the entire basement, or the sound will become very dull/dead.

Third; drummers singing is often a problem, what could help eliminate the drums coming through on the mic is trying a hyper cardioid or super cardioid mic (see google for explenation).

Maybe some people here will have tips on hyper/super cardioid mics that sound good as live vocal mics.
 
Just one correction... Egg cartons do absolutely nothing other than hold eggs and add fuel to fires.
 
Jimmy is right about the egg cartons (he's right about most things, actually. Haha). Don't waste yr time like i did.

Have you guys considered just playing quieter when you rehearse? I'm a drummer myself and I sing backups and harmonies while drumming - its much easier to hear yourself and the intricacies of singing/playing when you turn the volume down a bit. To put it another way, just because amps can go to 10, doesn't mean they have to.
 
Tomm Williams said:
Consider getting a Crown CM-311a headset mic for your drummer. Pretty much the standard for live sound drummers.
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Yeah, nothing like a headset mic to make sure the drummer is 'eating' the mic. It looks kinda silly live, but I used to use one for rehearsals myself, before I purchased my own drum monitor for rehearsal. More like a full PA actually. It even had 18" subs. I loved to feel the kick at rehearsal. :)
 
If a cardioid headset is out of the question, my go to mic for drummer vocals in a live situation is the Audix OM7. It has a nice tight pattern and actually less sensitivity than the standard OM5 and OM6 versions. It's got me out of a hole quite often.

Check the RATSOUND web site. Dave Rat sometimes has "Z stock" OM7s at a very reasonable price--that's where I've bought both mine and they've been great.
 
Nice thing about a headset is it doesn't inhibit the drummer (or any musician) from moving around without losing gain. While I think a frontman with a headset does look a little odd, the drummer should be able to get away with it behind the kit. The 311 also happens to be a fine sounding mic on it's own merits.
 
Tomm Williams said:
Nice thing about a headset is it doesn't inhibit the drummer (or any musician) from moving around without losing gain. While I think a frontman with a headset does look a little odd, the drummer should be able to get away with it behind the kit. The 311 also happens to be a fine sounding mic on it's own merits.
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I like how we have been PC about calling a headset looking 'odd'. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
I like how we have been PC about calling a headset looking 'odd'. :)
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Maybe it's less odd if he makes an image out of it, with like, one of those overall racer outfits and some flying gogles. Might look kinda cool :)

I didn't know about the egg cartons, I never actually tried that myself.
 
used to have a rehearsal shed that was 3 concrete walls, bout 5 meter high roof & thin tin roof and large metal door. we had to do sumting to the walls as it was just too much reverb&spill. we used egg trays (24), not cartons (12), then we glued them to the walls in 2 layers, old carpet hung over the door, 2 layers of carpet on the floor. all free. we recorded 2 albums there, made a tent for the drums out of scafolding,hung carpet over it to lessen the spill. the egg trays worked,but we did use a few hundred of em.

think your problem is due to clipping the channel, like chrisghost said.

Im a drummer myself, used to use a SM57 for my backups back in the day, now im getting back into the back ups, i found an old Toa WT 4810 wireless set for $2 at an op shop& was mucking round at practice with it, sounded nice and clear with bugger all spill.
It doesnt look as 80's as a headset, but it solves the problem of tryin to scoff the mic (like i had to with the 57) when your bashing the drums.
 
I would find a new drummer, so your current drummer could front the band, that is if he really is a good singer. Drummer's as lead singers look dorky. If he balks at that idea tell him he'll get a lot more pussy as just the lead singer as opposed to a drummer. This is expeirence talking here!
 
dreib said:
I would find a new drummer, so your current drummer could front the band, that is if he really is a good singer. Drummer's as lead singers look dorky. If he balks at that idea tell him he'll get a lot more pussy as just the lead singer as opposed to a drummer. This is expeirence talking here!
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:facepalm:
 
Well I can't have him sing lead alone, he refuses to do it, he says he would much rather play the drums than anything. We WOULD like a lead singer, but non-shy lead singers with the voice and interest we are looking for. As far as the setup, we were able to get the volume we needed out of him by plugging the mic into my bass pedal and using a limiter on it. With that, we were able to raise the volume of the speaker more without feedback, to a point, but the speaker is still clipping, even with a limiter, which seems strange. Any ideas about that? Thanks for all of your help so far!
 
ZJE123 said:
I know this is a recording forum, but I hope I can find some live sound advice. Currently, my band is composed of three people, and the drummer is the lead vocalist because neither me or the guitar player are good enough for lead. Currently we have no money to buy new equipment as most of it was already spent on equipment we thought would work (better mic, pa speaker, ect), so hopefully that is not something we have to do. We currently mic him with a audix OM5 which is unidirectional, and we run it through a Toa RX 31C mixing Console into a Thump TH-12A PA Speaker, which should be loud enough in theory. The basement we practice in is not that large so we pretty much stick the drummer in the corner of the room. I believe the reason why a lot of the drums go through the audix is because the sounds bounce off of the wall behind him however, this is something we can't fix, we really don't have enough space to put him in the middle of the room. Every time we play, we constantly have to turn his mic up on the mixer, but somehow, we can never hear him over everything else. Also, what we do hear from him is really distorted and sounds like a 40s air pilot microphone most likely because it is constantly clipping (there is a red light that warns us of clipping, so that's how we know). Is there some kind of eq-uing or limiter type thing we can do with the mixer or PA speaker that will help us actually hear the drummer? I've heard of people saying gating would be useful, but I'm not even sure if the mixer has one. Any Help will be appreciated! :guitar:
Click to expand...

Re-reading your post.................you have a lot of potential issues.

1--How loud are you rehearsing? Can you turn down?
2--What are you putting through the system? just vocals?
3--Does your drummer know how to really project his voice?
4--You don't need a gate
5--Describe your entire system
 
Tomm Williams said:
Re-reading your post.................you have a lot of potential issues.

1--How loud are you rehearsing? Can you turn down?
2--What are you putting through the system? just vocals?
3--Does your drummer know how to really project his voice?
4--You don't need a gate
5--Describe your entire system
Click to expand...

Very 'on point' questions, except for #4. This is fact. Answer all of these first OP.
 
Tomm Williams said:
Re-reading your post.................you have a lot of potential issues.

1--How loud are you rehearsing? Can you turn down?
2--What are you putting through the system? just vocals?
3--Does your drummer know how to really project his voice?
4--You don't need a gate
5--Describe your entire system
Click to expand...

We are rehearsing where all the instruments are leveled to be at the right volume with un-miked drums, as that is the lowest volume we can set everything, cause the drummer can't play any quieter. We plug the mic into a bass effects pedal for reverb, from the pedal to an aux port on the microphone mixing board, then from the mixing board to the pa speaker. He does know how to project his voice. I actually don't know whether the pedal or the mixing board has a gate anyway, but we use a limiter, but the pa is still clipping (my band doesn't care that it clips as they think it is subtle, but I can't stand it personally) The drums are just acoustic, the bass guitar/ bass keyboard (as when I play keyboards, I use left hand bass for the bass part) are plugged into a 200 watt leslie speaker. The regular keyboards are plugged into a music man, the guitar is plugged into a regular 35 watt amplifier, and the guitarist also has a mic (which is turned off most of the time) for singing which is plugged into the mixer as well. I'm also afraid that the clipping is going to damage the speaker, but I'm not sure if clipping will do that to as speaker or not.
 
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