Stupified - BETA58 - Last time....

Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
Ok, I took a couple days off of work next week and am going to rent a microphone to do some vocals on a couple new tunes that I have in the works...and maybe rework some older ones.

I think I am going to rent a Beta 58. Since the local shop is geared more at bands, they tend to carry a very wide selection of stage microphones over recording mics. I appreciate the comments made by some of you on other microphones, notably the C1000, but I don't think that they are in my budget or right for what I'm trying to do.

So here's the question. Assuming that I like working with the Beta 58, should I purchase it? (~160 bucks from radio shack online)

That is, if I was to buy the Beta 58, would I kick myself in the ass down the road with "oh man, I should have bought <such and such> for the same price. I would have been so much happier!" You know that my setup is very limited as is my voice (which I think might benefit from the 58 eq)....

P.S. S8-N: I decided to take your advice and not try to do all the vocals in one day...so I took off tuesday and thursday. Thanks for your comments.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Is the beta 58 a condenser??? IF not I would go the extra $30 (I know you hate that) and get a C1000. Really, this is an awesome mic and a real bargain. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about 'em.
For vox you gotta have a condenser...
You know what is coming next down that long road of nickel and diming yourself into poverty for your studio... A tube mic preamp.
 
I agree with S8-N. A condenser for vocals is the way to go as a general overall concensus; but there's always exceptions. A local pro studio owner I know says he'd guess that probably anywhere from 1:100 to 1:1000 (which I know is a very large ratio difference) will sound better on a SM-57 than on a U-87; imagine that! That's not to say the 57 would be the best choice either.

Generally though, I'd pick a 1000 over a 58 for vocal recording. Go to a local music store (most any decent place will have both so it's not as if they're hard to come by) and try them both out on your voice and see which is better for you); not that it's a very ideal set-up for mic comparisions, but it would be better with something rather than nothing.
 
But I thought that the C1000 was more of a "multiple use" type of condensor. I'm not sure if the store will have one...and there's only one store in town (yeesh).

In other words, it would be a situation where I would order a C1000 and hope that I like it. It does run off of battery power, right? Also, it seems to be built for ambient micing....like something you'd stick over a drum kit. I say that because it seems to have openings on the sides instead of the top. Is that true or am I just looking at it wrong?

I don't know, I guess I'm confused again. I understand that a condenser is better for vocals...but if the C1000 isn't built for vocals while the Beta 58 IS built for vocals.

S8-N: you mentioned that you use two microphones for vocals. Something close and a C1000 a few inches back. I don't have two microphones. I could use the 57 but I'm absolutely disgusted by it for vocals...now I know I'm not a good singer, but it really seems to flatten my voice a lot. How do you like the C1000 alone?

Anyway, I'm not totally set here yet. A few hours ago I was just going to get the Beta 58...screw it...Shure makes a good reliable microphone, right? Well, now I'm back to the C1000...the free AKG open headphones sound good too....

Ahhh I wish there was a way to test this stuff on my own. I guess I should really just go with the consensus though. All of you guys are more experienced and you all seem to prefer the C1000 as a good "cheap" microphone...it's probably my best bet.

And yes....a tube preamp. Wouldn't that be a treat! But I need a tube *guitar* amp first :) SO many things to buy and not enough positive cash flow.

Slackmaster 2000
 
You're right about the 1000 being designed as an all purpose mic and the 58 being designed specificly as a live vocal mic; but a lot of times, "designed for" and practicality don't go hand n' hand. For example: one of my favorite condensers to record a snare in the studio is a Shure Beta 87 (a standard live condenser among many pro singers); go figure.

Also, there are many other small-diaphragm condenser all around mics out right now with just about $50US more than a 1000. But really, I'd probably prefer the 1000 over those $50US more mics on vocals; go figure again.

Although, I have to say that if you're gonna spend $200US on a 1000, I think you'd be about 3x better off waiting until you save just a little more to buy an Oktava MC319 for $279 from The Sound Room. www.oktava.com
It's a large-diaphragm (sigificantly better for vocals) and is multipattern (cardioid, omni, fig 8) which means way more options. A lot of times, I use pattern options on mics instead of an EQ to improve the sound. It's like having different EQ settings on the mic.

By the way, I'm not in any way associated with Oktava nor The sound Room by any other means than an impressed client.
 
The C1000 has an open cap like any other mic... It sounds fine for vox on its own, I mix it with other mics to fatten up the sound and because I've got all of these mics and all of these tracks so might as well use 'em.
Also I use it with the SM57 cause the 57 was meant to close mic vox and the C1000 needs to be a bit farther away, so when you mix the two tracks you get a natural delay that kinda takes the edge off of rough vox...
Plus when you set the C1000 a couple of feet away from your mouth, you eliminate the wind noise and pop's and wheezing and all of that nasty crap associated with the human voice.
You do this with a non-condenser and you loose signal.

S8-N
 
Ok guys, I'm leaning towards the C1000S since everyone seems to like it.

Questions:

What's the deal with the PPC 1000 converter and the PB 1000 presense boost adapter? Are these necessary or desirable? How much do they cost or are they included?

What about battery power? Does it really perform as well on the battery? I don't have phantom power as you may know. How long should the battery last and how much do replacement batteries cost? Assuming they're not the standard 9V square batteries.

Oh, and I looked at the picture again... doesn't look as odd as I originally thought.

Anyway, the price I'm looking at is $199 and includes a free pair of headphones and free shipping. Good? (that's at 8th street) BTW, I'm seeing a lot of sites selling this mic for almost $300 and one site had it for $450 (which is over suggested retail). Is this $199 price standard or should I rush the purchase?

Slackmaster 2000

[This message has been edited by Slackmaster2K (edited 12-13-1999).]
 
Slack - I copied this down from a previous msg from somebody: "Put the SM57 4-6 in behind the pop screen, and the C1000 2 feet back and slightly to the side. Pan both about 50% L/R."

My situation just about mirrors yours... but I just bit the bullet and ordered an ART Tube MP (97.95 @ Zzounds.com) and the AT C1000S ($199 w/ the free headphones @ 8thstreet.com) This is more than I want to spend, but from all the conversations here and from what I've read, this is the least expensive way to start on the path to the sounds I just gots to have! There was a review of the C1000 in an issue this year of Guitar Player (a comparison of inexpensive condesor mics) and for the price, the reviewers were really pleased with the C1000 for both vox and acoustic guitar. And I figure the Tube MP sure won't hurt my Shure (pun intended) and I can use it for impedence matching and other stuff, too.
 
Raj:

Sounds good. I'm not going to buy until after christmas sometime (I think) so let me know how you like it.

BTW, that was S8-N who posted that about the 57 & C1000.

Slackmaster 2000
 
The PPC is included although I don't use it, and I dont know about the other thing. It uses standard 9v batteries, although when you buy the tube preamp (ART dual MP), it will have phantom power.
I got mine from 8thstreet, so I guess this is their regular price, but I think the headphone deal is a limited time offer. They sound good. If you happen to need a good pair of 'phones its a sweeeet deal.
 
Well, I took a trip to the music store today and they let me rent out a brand new Beta 58 (they don't carry many studio mics at all). Three days for $15 plus they'll credit that 15 bucks towards the purchase.......

Except that I don't think I'm interested in the 58. So far on my setup it sounds like a really loud SM57. Nothing magical at all. I will admit that it's easier to sing into...less popping and breathing sounds. I'm beginning to think that it's more the lack of preamp that's hurting me.

I ran both mics through that old Boss multieffect guitar pedal using some reverb and EQ and the Beta 58 and the SM57 sounded very similar....so.....maybe I don't have the ear for this yet or I need a preamp.

Is it possible to purchase a preamp/mixer cheaply or are they usually in the $400+ range?

Anyway, I'm going to use the 58 for real all day tomorrow and maybe I'll be happier. It'll definately help a little bit.

So, back to the C1000. If I was to order the C1000, is it likely that I'd say "oh yeah, that's more like it!" Or will it sound pretty much the same with my rig?

Maybe I just need a pop screen for my 57 :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Mr. 2000,

Raj said that the ART Tube MicPre is sold at Zzounds.com for $97.95. Why don't you get that for now and try it on your SM57. You should hear an improvement. When you get the cash, buy a large digaphram microphone for your vocals. The SM57 will still be good for instruments.

You can try running your guitar through this preamp to see if you get any warm tones.


[This message has been edited by Fishmed (edited 12-14-1999).]
 
You seriously need to **** chill out man. It's only been a few days and I don't even have the cash yet. I have to do some vocals today and the rest of this week so I had to rent the 58...it was the only decent thing they carried (that they'd rent).

Fishmed:

Hmm. It seems that I seriously misjudged the price of a preamp. I really think that might be the best thing to start out with. Then at least I'd have a better idea of how things are supposed to sound, even with the 57. I've always been of the school that you should start with small steps in order to better appreciate the bigger ones. Thanks for all your help...these last few weeks have been a real learning experience.

***UPDATE***
I've been singing through the Beta 58 all day now and I pretty much hate it. I can definately see where it would be a kick ass stage microphone...hardly picks up anything but your voice... For recording, however, I finally understand what you've all been telling me. Thanks again.

Slack

[This message has been edited by Slackmaster2K (edited 12-14-1999).]
 
For that price you can get a mono tube pre but you will need a stereo preamp if you want to get the stereo mic effect. Be advised that the tube preamp difference is subtle... more subtle than the difference between a SM57 and a C1000. The DUAL MP by ART is around $200... The C1000 is also around $200. Put these two together with the 57 and I think you can get the sound of a pro mic.
The last studio I recorded in had a $2000 Sennheiser vocal condenser. The stuff I've done with my 57/C1000 combo sounds just as good.
 
Nearly a year ago, my brother bought the ART mono tube pre. We tested it out and compared to my Mackie SR24-4 pres using a Neumann TLM-103. I have to say, I hated it. Not for the fact that it sounded bad; it just the difference was not a $100US difference, more like a $20US difference; not worth it to me.

For just $79 more than the C1000s, you can get a large-diaphragm Oktava MC319 which hold there own ground next to mics such as a Rode NT2 or Audio Technica 4050; and in my opinion, dominate others such as the C3000, Rode NT1, or Marshall (the mic), I forget model number (but there's only one).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top