Studio Projects C1 versus My Guitar

Z

zoetrope

New member
Here is my first attempt at recording guitar with my new C1. Why guitar? Because everyone always talks about how great it sounds on vocals, which it does, and I wanted to know how it sounds on acoustic guitar. So here are the files. The MP3 is longer, recorded at 192 kbs. For purists there's a wav file too, but it's very short to keep the file size down. Please ignore my crappy playing and technique, focus on the sound. I used two different mic positions, and I'll get into that and the sound chain in a second. First, before I forget, here are the two files:



http://www.cris.com/~mwmw/zoetrope/zoetrope-c1-snippet.wav

Ok, as you can hear, I played the same piece twice, first with the mic about five inches in front of the guitar, positioned right in front of where the neck meets the body, angled slightly toward the sound hole. The second time through the mic is right in front of the left side of the sound hole (from my perspective. In other words, the neck side of the sound hole) still about 5 inches out from the guitar. Not surprisingly, the first position is more trebley, the second has more bass and a fuller tone. I normalized the sound file but used no compression. The wav is louder than the mp3 since the snippet I normalized didn't have the huge transients in the original. Feel free to do your own compression and play around with eq settings on these to see if you can make them sound better. Meanwhile I'll go practice.

Sound Chain:
My old faithful Takamine solid top acoustic with week old strings - the Studio Projects C1 mic, XLR to XLR cable into an Art Tube MP - 1/4 inch to 1/4 inch guitar cable with a 1/8 adaptor into the computer - Sound Blaster Live sound card - Sound Forge set to 44.1 khz 16-bit mono.
I used the Lame encoder for the MP3 at 192 kbs. As mentioned, I normalized each take, but did not compress.

So how's it sound?
Well, to me it sounds like it could use some compression and some reverb, but that's just to cover up my crappy playing. The actual tone of the guitar sounds very good to me, especially the second take with the mic in front of the sound hole. It might be a little boomy for some people, but I could always eq out some of the low end in a mix. Sitting by itself it has a nice sound.

Let me know what you think.
 
I think thats a very acceptable tone...of course u know the weak link in the chain is the SB Live.....

a bit of compression to help even out the level would be good, but it would also bring up the soundcards noise....

I would roll of some of the lowest lows....in a mix, you would definiely have to.....

reverb on it as a solo piece would be fine...in a mix, it would depend on the context and what role it is playing....

Overall, it sounds really nice....I tried recording an acoustic with my Marshall MXLv67 and it had similar results, but as with vocals, I had some acoustic problems....no big deal, it was borrowed anyway...Ill stick to my acoustic guitar patch on my J-Station:rolleyes:
 
I compared my c1 to my shure 849 on acoustic guitar. The c1 from 2 feet away sounded better. but close miked the 849 did better to me. I miked the guitar at a 30 degree angle to the 12th fret from 5" then @ 2'. Small diaphram is just better for the guitar. Unless it's from a good distance and then that c1 really shines.
Why is that?
Adam
P.S. That guitar has excellent tone! Nice recording!
 
wow, I was expecting worse, but it really sounds good on the acoustic. I loved the bigness of the bottom. I also could not detect any of the distortion up top that the prorec guy talked about.

listening to the wav file was even more of a revelation, as the high end came through nice and focused.
 
CyanJaguar said:
Do you think you could please post a vocal ensample. I would like to know how it sounds on vox.
Click to expand...
Believe me, you don't want to hear me singing. I'll let someone who knows how to sing do a C1 sample on vocals. However, I do plan on capturing a few more instruments with the C1 just to see how it does.

To all others above, thanks for the comments. Gidge, I agree with all your comments, except the last (or were you kidding). I think it's worth the effort to find a good mic for acoustic guitar. As for the SB Live, I have no complaints with this card, for the money it's a good one. The last couple upgrades to the sound chain were the Tube Amp and now the C1. Just by adding those I've improved the sound I can capture incalculably. A new computer and sound card are next, and that obviously will take an even bigger investment, so it will be a while. Till then, I've gotten pretty close with this set up (and the limitations of a basement with low ceilings and lots of noise) to the sound I wanted. I finally got rid of the muddy muffled sound previous recordings had. The C1 was the major reason for the improvement in sound. For those who have been on the fence about buying one, I can tell you from one who has a pretty bare bones set up that this mic makes all the difference.
 
I too am interested in the C1. That recording sounded very good to me, nice playing also.

Unfortunately, I went to the dentist this morning, and he has big designs on my money.

So Alan if your there, I am the perfect candidate for the free C1, it would really cheer me up. You could be the anti-dentist!!

I think the sound is great, it doesn't even sound like it needs processing, that's my kind of sound.

zeotrope,

Nice playing, and thanks for going to the trouble. I finally got to hear a C1 in action. Now I want one even more. That may be one of the best acoustic guitar recordings I've heard. (GT goes out on a limb).

Thanks, and now to listen again, and again.

GT
 
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HearClear inquired:Unless it's from a good distance and then that c1 really shines. Why is that?
Click to expand...

IIRC (manual is at home, I am @ work) the SP C1 manual says something about the sound source being 12-24" from the diaphragm.

I'm guessing at 5" you are out of the "sweet spot", and overloading on the proximity effect.

Queue
 
close micing versus far

At 12-24 inches away from the guitar you would be hearing my hard drive, the dehumidifier, my kid watching Thomas the Tank Engine, my wife nagging me to stop wasting time on the computer, the buzz of the dimmer switched light over my head, footsteps outside the basement window, and, oh yeah, a little bit of acoustic guitar. But if anyone has a quiet room to mic from the proper distance and can post a demo, please do. I'd love to hear the difference.

GT, thanks for the compliment. I had about 10 minutes to record and post before the aforementioned wife came downstairs to nag, er, talk. The week old strings on the guitar help the sound a lot too. I love new strings.
 
zoe,
I hear ya on the "ambient" noise thing. My dog decided to announce the arrival of a neighbor while I was tracking the other night. Funny thing is, I was singing a song I wrote about my brother's dog, and was thinking about getting her to bark and recording her, but decided not to bother. So when the opportunity presented itself, I let the thing roll, and mixed her in. My PC and stuff are in a loft one flight of stairs above our bedroom. The C1, being 20-30 ft from my dog, pointed in the wrong direction, picked her up just fine....

Queue

If you really wanna hear it... Here it is, warts and all, vocals (human and canine) were tracked using the following: C1 -> Aardvark DirectPro 24/96 (I don't think I was using the Aark's compressor or EQ) -> Recorded using Vegas @ 24 bit, 44.1kHz. I usually add a little reverb in Vegas, I'll have to look, as this sounds pretty dry, and I don't remember. Remember, I suck, and don't plan on quitting my day job... (and yes, the lead guitar is missing, this is an interim demo kinda thingy...)

A Dog Named Treat
 
"Remember, I suck"

Hey, sounds good. Yeah, the mix is a little dry but that helps as far as hearing what the vocals sound like on the C1. If you're really brave you can post the vocal track alone.
 
I doubt the world is ready for acapella Queue :eek: (might cause ALL the dogs to start howling!!!)

About that mix... hehe 4-tracks (drums, bass, electric and acoustic guitars) recorded live in my brother's basement about a year ago... paying VERY little attention to detail.

I'm working on some other stuff, and if I really nail a good take I spose I could post a bit for all to hear...

Queue
 
hey queue,

did you boost the highs on the vox? It sounds unnaturally bright, even tinny. About how far away were you recording?
 
CJ,
I tend to run the EQ flat on the thing...(maybe I need to cut it a bit on the highs?) I'm still learning how to deal with it. (Or maybe I just sound tinny...) I was probably 12-14" away, as I have a pop-filter about 4" away from the mic.

My dog was 20-30 feet away... (does she sound ok?)

Queue

all this scrutiny, and I wasn't paying attention :(
I'm gonna have to do a bit of recording tonight, and take good notes...
 
hey queue,

rest assurred, its not your voice. You have a good voice.
I like the sound of your electric guitars.

I was listening on headphones in the school library when I said it was tinny

Now that I am listening on my ns10ms, I realize that its not that the treble is overboosted, but that the lows are missing.

I think that moving to about 5 inches from the mic will give an awesome sound. The nice highs and that big bottom that this mic is wont to have.

I look forward to hearing that sound. peace
 
Queue,

I've been enjoying Dog named Treat, very much, great sound overall, my cats seemed startled though.

Happy song, what the world needs more of!!
 
Fun song, Queue.:cool:

Zoetrope I was surprised that your acoustic was fed thru a Soundblaster. Sounded more and open and airy then I would have thought.
 
:o (Blushing)
Thanks for the kind comments re: Dog Named Treat.

It is a very fun song, and is the first song I ever wrote. I was inspired to play and write music by the guys who put the fun back into music, The Presidents of the United States of America.

Queue
 
getuhgrip said:
Zoetrope I was surprised that your acoustic was fed thru a Soundblaster. Sounded more and open and airy then I would have thought.
Click to expand...
Yeah, for all the flack this card takes here, I don't think it's so bad. I'll upgrade it at some point, but for home recording I think the money is better spent on a good mic like the C1 rather than bumping up a passible sound card. I would love to hear the difference between my current system versus this system with a better AD/DA converter or high end sound card. Some day.
 
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