SM57 and the guitar

amt7565

New member
Hello,
First time trying to record using a Mic. I am using an SM57.

I am recording into a Clarett 2-Pre. I am having to raise the Amp level quite a bit to get a healthy signal into the mix. Sounds a bit too loud and distracting when trying to play along.


Anyone know if a condensor mic might provide more sensitivity so that I would not need to raise the amp levels as much? If so anything equivalent to the SM57?

Not looking for Direct recording. Really want to Mic only.

Thanks for any helpful tips.
 
Assuming your 57 is in fine working order, something is happening between the mic and your console/interface.

Even at a moderately low amplifier volume you should be getting a strong enough signal. Have you checked all the links in the chain?

If you can't figure it out, I'll pop by in a few hours:D
 
Assuming your 57 is in fine working order, something is happening between the mic and your console/interface.

Even at a moderately low amplifier volume you should be getting a strong enough signal. Have you checked all the links in the chain?

If you can't figure it out, I'll pop by in a few hours:D

I believe the links seem fine. XLR-->XLR cable directly into the Clarett Pres. Also, the Clarett input gain is set to almost full. After recording, the tracks sounds fine. The mic is also only about 1 inch from the speaker cloth. But if only I can play at lower volumes.

I can mess around with the software interface again and double check.
 
What is your idea of "healthy recording levels"? A distorted, sustained chord should sit around --42p dbfs. (About half way up the meter)

The way you phrased the original question makes me think you might be recording too hot and/or setting mix levels with the recording levels, instead of recording at proper levels and then mixing with the faders afterwards.
 
You should be.cracking the preamp levels at around 3 o'clock or the sm57 would not be loud enough. The amp will be a bit louder than quite home practice but not too loud that makes it uncomfortable to stay in the room.

On the other hand, if the amp is set louder you will most likely achieve a better tone.
 
Hi folks, thanks for your feedback. Problem seems to have been solved.

It appears my amp volume was not set high enough. I am using a JVM410 with a 4x12 cab and I had both the channel and the master volumes at the 9 O'clock position. Turning up the voume higher to about 10 helped quite a bit. The inputs are at about half level in the dBu meter. The sound really sounds fantastic. Yes a the amp volume is a little louder than I prefer, but I am able to muffle the noise a bit by monitoring through the headphones which helps.

The Clarett 2Pre is great as it reproduces with fantastic quality.

thanks for everyone's feedback as it did help resolve this issue for me.

Btw- anyone has a recommendation for an equivalent Mic to the SM57 that is a condensor? I like to experiment.
 
You haven't solved the problem, just found a workaround. If you have to wear hearing protection because it's too loud something is very wrong. 57s aren't the most sensitive mic in the world but this is weird? If you set halfway gain on the preamp and speak not shout into it, what sort of level is on the meter?
 
Ey'up! I am going to start another hobby horse!

Peeps here will know me well for telling everyone to buy a basic, $20 digital multimeter. Now I am going to propose the same idea (but perhaps even MORE forcefully?) about a similarly price Sound Level Meter. Need be nothing flash but should have a "C" weighting (which is pretty much flat).

Such a device would tell "us" in a trice what peeps sound levels are at and take a massive amount of guesswork out of any advice.

Then of course they can ALL calibrate their monitors! FWIW, I have noticed a while ago when assisting son that even quite a subjectively loud amp (at unsocial hours in suburbia!) does not produce much level out of a 57?

Dave.

Dave.
 
So I understand the loudness can be a subjective issue.

When I speak into the Microphone about 1-2 inches from the head, I am hitting about 28-38dBFs on the input levels. I am speaking in a firm voice, not yelling but about singing level. The pre-am gain is halfway (12 O'clock)

The SM57 I have is an old unit and I purchased it used about 8-10 years ago and never got to use it.

Not sure what else I can do other than to buy another one.

Thoughts on the levels?
 
That seems about right for a 57. I think your description of how loud the amp was messed up the perception of what was going on. The amp really should be louder than a singing voice.

Point the mic at the speaker, right where the dust cap (the circle in the middle) meets the cone.
 
I note that the 2Pre has a mic gain spec of 57dB. This is a little below the usual 60dB these days and even with 60dB I find you have to advance the gain control well past 12 o'clock to get into the -18dB Goldilocks zone even for close speech.
When I recorded my son on acoustic guitar at about a foot I had to have my NI KA6 wound to max* for an SM57 (he preferred the 57 sound to both a Sontronics STC-2 and an AKG P150..Musicians eh!?)

So, bottom line: Yes, you need the amp a bit louder but also you need IMHO to crank the knob on the Claret. The AIs are known for their clean, low noise preamps so should not be a problem.

*The KA6 is still low noise even at max gain.

Dave.
 
Thanks. I too have the gain at about 85% to get a clean signal. Pushing it past 90% injects clipping, so I know I have reached my threshold. Only concern is if that levels will hold good when it's mixing/mastering.

On a related topic, anyone here recorded using 2 x mics in stereo for lead guitar? For Rythm I use L/R and pan them out.

thanks
 
If 90% is clipping, 85% might be too much. What do the meters say? That is the only important thing. A distorted sustained chord should sit around -18dbfs (about half way up the meter). That is the proper levels for most non-percussive instruments. (Only because things like drums don't have a long enough sustain to usefully measure them that way)

The level in the mix will be relative to everything else in the mix. You are in control of that, it has very little to do with the recording levels.

Using two mics to get stereo is normally done with one mic close and another one farther away. Two close mics really won't get you a stereo image. Most people create a stereo image by playing the rhythm part twice and panning them away from each other.

This works for leads as well.
 
"Stereo" as a concept for a guitar cab is not really valid. A CO-I pair within a foot say will just resolve as a giant speaker stretching from monitor to monitor.

You COULD pull the mics way back and get the room in there but it would have to be a very nice room and I don't think many top studio people record amps that way?

For perhaps THE best dissertation on recording rock guitar Google " sound on sound Aug 2007".

Dave.
 
The two mic as stereo thing (close and distant) was much more popular in the 70'same and early 80's. But that sound doesn't really hold up to what we are used to hearing today.
 
Folks- thanks for your insights.

For recording lead guitar, do you duplicate the track and slightly pan them? It's not posible to exactly replay a complex phrase. Or leave them in the middle?
 
It depends on the effect that you want. Why do you feel you need to double track the leads?

For an idea of what triple tracked leads panned to the center sound like, listen to any of the randy Rhodes Ozzy songs (crazy train, etc...) The leads were triple tracked in the studio.

But no, it set necessary to double leads. Most of the time, people use delay or reverb to get a sense of space on the leads.
 
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