Shure 58beta upgrade or decent mic preamp ?

polkor

New member
Dear all
I have purchased 58beta a year ago and it sound too bright/harsh to me.
I decided to change my mic to have smoother/warmer sounding vocals.
My budget is max 350$
First of all, my desirable mic was SM7b but unfortunately my Yamaha UR22 has not enough gain ( it has 54db , shure needs min 60db). Therefore buying 7b and preamp it's not an option
Hence how about those mics ?Apparently they do not sound bright

CAD M179
MXL V67G
CAD Audio Equitek E100S
ADK Hamburg
Oktava MK-319 (used )

Another option is Golden age Project 73 Junior and keeping 58beta(perhaps there are other decent mic preamps that i'm not aware of...)
What do you guys think? I am bit perplexed
Thanks
 
How do you record with the Beta? It is a "hot" mic, but some distance can tame that a bit. I assume you're using a pop-screen - move it a couple inches further away. And, did you ever try sticking a decent quality foam windscreen over the ball on that thing? (Honest)

Post some clips of the way you record, with DAW levels, and then with some other free/cheap adjustments, maybe with EQ curves you're using, too.

Without hearing your voice, a mic recommendation is hard to make (IMO).
 
How do you record with the Beta? It is a "hot" mic, but some distance can tame that a bit. I assume you're using a pop-screen - move it a couple inches further away. And, did you ever try sticking a decent quality foam windscreen over the ball on that thing? (Honest)

Post some clips of the way you record, with DAW levels, and then with some other free/cheap adjustments, maybe with EQ curves you're using, too.

Without hearing your voice, a mic recommendation is hard to make (IMO).

yeah i have pop filter in front and windscreen behind the mic
i dont have any clips but in other part of home recording forum i post those tracks because of EQ
few people recommended better mic tho

1ik3d1.png


2.Miszigen - Shottas by miszigen | Free Listening on SoundCloud recorded further from mic

1.Miszigen - Garda by miszigen | Free Listening on SoundCloud recorded closer to mic

iam not pro when it comes to mixing and still learning but i can hear that mic is not soft
 
Why do you have the high boost on the EQ? The closer mic sample is actually picking up a bit more of the proximity effect, so maybe that's more to what you're looking for, but I'd start removing that high shelf, 2k bump, and put in a roll-off and maybe a small, wide pull-down in the high(er) mids.

I don't know what else is going on in the mix, but it has an almost distorted sound to my ear. What's the record level, and is there any other kind of boost, exciter, or compressor distortion at work? (This is not my style of music, though, so maybe someone with a better understanding of where you're going with this can chip it.)
 
Why do you have the high boost on the EQ? The closer mic sample is actually picking up a bit more of the proximity effect, so maybe that's more to what you're looking for, but I'd start removing that high shelf, 2k bump, and put in a roll-off and maybe a small, wide pull-down in the high(er) mids.

I don't know what else is going on in the mix, but it has an almost distorted sound to my ear. What's the record level, and is there any other kind of boost, exciter, or compressor distortion at work? (This is not my style of music, though, so maybe someone with a better understanding of where you're going with this can chip it.)

I notice the same. As a user of Cubase I would totally agree not using any of the boosting at any frequency with the stock eq. It is IMO only maybe good for surgical 'correction' eq. I have found that it is never a good idea to use this eq for boosts, and usually not a good idea anyway even with a great mic or EQ. Especially if you feel the Beta is 'harsh' then you do not want to be boosting eq at 3.5k.

Which version of Cubase are you using?

And I am not sure the UR22 gain wouldn't be adequate as I hear that your voice is quite strong. I believe they are the same preamps as the UR824 has and they are fine for singers that are not whispering in my experience.
 
Why do you have the high boost on the EQ? The closer mic sample is actually picking up a bit more of the proximity effect, so maybe that's more to what you're looking for, but I'd start removing that high shelf, 2k bump, and put in a roll-off and maybe a small, wide pull-down in the high(er) mids.

I don't know what else is going on in the mix, but it has an almost distorted sound to my ear. What's the record level, and is there any other kind of boost, exciter, or compressor distortion at work? (This is not my style of music, though, so maybe someone with a better understanding of where you're going with this can chip it.)

Well i use standard Cubase EQ, Roll off under 100hz , boost bit around 200hz and slightly mids and high.
perhaps i shouldn't but even without it vocals are too bright imho
Actually yes i felt after a while that something is distorted but no one else mentioned it before so i tho it might monitors fault :facepalm:
firstly i bring all levels down around -6db to avoid distortions
copy same vocal and move it max left and other max right
then de-esser from waves
two cubase compressors tube and vintage (both low compression). i tried so many compressors from waves and personaly i like those two
from cubase the most. i recently got softube vst but havent tried it yet
then i use center plugin(also waves) to place vocals
if levels are low i use cubase maximizer
on msater bus i use only API2500 to glue vocals with beat
and L1
then i bring levels up on master to -0.03/-0.05
 
I notice the same. As a user of Cubase I would totally agree not using any of the boosting at any frequency with the stock eq. It is IMO only maybe good for surgical 'correction' eq. I have found that it is never a good idea to use this eq for boosts, and usually not a good idea anyway even with a great mic or EQ. Especially if you feel the Beta is 'harsh' then you do not want to be boosting eq at 3.5k.

Which version of Cubase are you using?

And I am not sure the UR22 gain wouldn't be adequate as I hear that your voice is quite strong. I believe they are the same preamps as the UR824 has and they are fine for singers that are not whispering in my experience.

Well, didnt know what to do with that EQ thing, i felt like i needed to EQ because basic vocals wasn't smooth.
I use Cubase 8 elements, Didn't want to transfer to artist due to usb dongle.
UR 824 gain is around 60db as far as i remember but UR22 is lower than that so i might need cloud lifter
if my voice is strong enough (iam loud in front of mic tho) want to go for 7b if none of above mics isnt good enough
 
Well i use standard Cubase EQ, Roll off under 100hz , boost bit around 200hz and slightly mids and high.
perhaps i shouldn't but even without it vocals are too bright imho
Actually yes i felt after a while that something is distorted but no one else mentioned it before so i tho it might monitors fault :facepalm:
firstly i bring all levels down around -6db to avoid distortions
copy same vocal and move it max left and other max right
then de-esser from waves
two cubase compressors tube and vintage (both low compression). i tried so many compressors from waves and personaly i like those two
from cubase the most. i recently got softube vst but havent tried it yet
then i use center plugin(also waves) to place vocals
if levels are low i use cubase maximizer
on msater bus i use only API2500 to glue vocals with beat
and L1
then i bring levels up on master to -0.03/-0.05
Repeating myself and others, just get rid of the high-end boosts in that EQ and probably that bottom bump. It's a bright mic, so I'd really put in a shelf to knock a dB or 2 off from 1k, with a sharp rolloff at 15k or so. The hi-pass can be left in.

I hope you mean -6dB for peak level - put a meter on that to be sure at the end of the FX on that channel. Or both, I guess, but I never double tracks - if they're going to the same FX bus, and panned hard left and right, that's the same as mono - and if you're piling FX on the 2 separate channels, there's always a chance of phase issues, which rarely will warm up anything. I'd seriously stick with mono until you've sorted out the EQ.

You might want to read some of the threads about LUFS - You are mastering way too high IMO, and probably introducing distortion.
 
I'm just very confused as to why you don't just spend more time with eq? Cubase gives you coarse and fine adjustment with loads of options bundled, let alone plugins - and in those clips I don't hear mic problems, I just hear eq opportunities. In fairness, very few mics don't benefit by some eq tuning of the people put in front of them, and Let's be honest here - most of us do things as a routine. We do them every time. My bass ALWAYS benefits by going to compression, doing the very same thing each time, and I do it before I even listen to what I've recorded. Why? Because it's just a bit 'not how I like it' - nothing wrong with it, it sounds like most Fender Jazz basses, and that's the trouble, I don't really like the instrument. I normally use all kinds of condensers for vocals, but one day, because I was really lazy, I grabbed the EV 320 that was sitting there, and quite liked it. I needed to rethink the eq a bit because obviously it didn't sound the same - but despite (like the Shure 7s) the lower gain, close in, as it's designed, it was fine. I used it for months like this, then one day, put a condenser back and wondered why I'd changed in the first place - without eq it sounded like the 320 WITH EQ. Not better, not worse - just different.Live wise, I like the Beta 58 over an SM58, but I like an 86 over the Beta58. With a small amount of eq tweaking it's fine.

In this example I suspect it's too radical eq - lots of boost and cut and it soon gets out of control and gets harsh.
 
Fix it in the mix!...Or not.

All roads lead to Rome so there are many to choose from to get there. Here's the route I go.

When I record anything it needs to sound good to my ears before I press record or I don't press record. Though fixing it in the mix is always an option it shouldn't be relied upon as a general practice pre recording.

Cool Cat a member here has this line in his signature "if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.-HG" HG is Harvey Gerst who is a pro that used to hang here in the golden days of HR.com..

IMO it sounds like you don't need a different mic you need to learn how to use the mic you have.

Using a simple 3 band mixer and effects you should be able to get that mic to sound just how you want it before you press record.
 
Repeating myself and others, just get rid of the high-end boosts in that EQ and probably that bottom bump. It's a bright mic, so I'd really put in a shelf to knock a dB or 2 off from 1k, with a sharp rolloff at 15k or so. The hi-pass can be left in.

I hope you mean -6dB for peak level - put a meter on that to be sure at the end of the FX on that channel. Or both, I guess, but I never double tracks - if they're going to the same FX bus, and panned hard left and right, that's the same as mono - and if you're piling FX on the 2 separate channels, there's always a chance of phase issues, which rarely will warm up anything. I'd seriously stick with mono until you've sorted out the EQ.

You might want to read some of the threads about LUFS - You are mastering way too high IMO, and probably introducing distortion.


level of vocals channels and instrumental stay the same. I dont bring them up, only master buss.
What about limiter? If i apply limiter on master bus lets say around -5db and then bring levels up to -0.03db is it risk of distortion?
 
I'm just very confused as to why you don't just spend more time with eq? Cubase gives you coarse and fine adjustment with loads of options bundled, let alone plugins - and in those clips I don't hear mic problems, I just hear eq opportunities. In fairness, very few mics don't benefit by some eq tuning of the people put in front of them, and Let's be honest here - most of us do things as a routine. We do them every time. My bass ALWAYS benefits by going to compression, doing the very same thing each time, and I do it before I even listen to what I've recorded. Why? Because it's just a bit 'not how I like it' - nothing wrong with it, it sounds like most Fender Jazz basses, and that's the trouble, I don't really like the instrument. I normally use all kinds of condensers for vocals, but one day, because I was really lazy, I grabbed the EV 320 that was sitting there, and quite liked it. I needed to rethink the eq a bit because obviously it didn't sound the same - but despite (like the Shure 7s) the lower gain, close in, as it's designed, it was fine. I used it for months like this, then one day, put a condenser back and wondered why I'd changed in the first place - without eq it sounded like the 320 WITH EQ. Not better, not worse - just different.Live wise, I like the Beta 58 over an SM58, but I like an 86 over the Beta58. With a small amount of eq tweaking it's fine.

In this example I suspect it's too radical eq - lots of boost and cut and it soon gets out of control and gets harsh.

isnt easier to EQ condenser mic? It has flatter response than dynamic
anyway if i want to have alternative mic which mic i should buy in budget less than 300$.
 
I don't think it's harder to eq any mic than another when you know them, dynamic or condenser, I don't really care if it can do what I need it too. For live stuff, I've got some of those Line 6 condensers with the ability to mimic other popular types, and review wise, people liked them, but I find that the differences to me, sound like gentle eq. I can't advise what to buy, because what I like might be different from you. I have just one AKG 414 now, the other got damaged, wrecking my old stereo pair, and over the years I've collected quite a few, including Russian Oktava 319s, and all kinds of Chinese stuff, and I tend to use brighter mics on instruments that are a bit dull, and the Oktavas when I get problems with a source that's too bright!
 
isnt easier to EQ condenser mic? It has flatter response than dynamic
anyway if i want to have alternative mic which mic i should buy in budget less than 300$.
You'd have to look at respons curves to see what the manufacturer says about flatness, but in the price range you're looking at, I wouldn't expect a great condenser.

I'm with [MENTION=178786]rob aylestone[/MENTION] on the differences between mics - a lot of careful EQ, especially in a mix, can make those differences subtle to the point of navel gazing; so unless you've got a terrific singer in a pretty good room, LDCs don't make you're life easier. And, it's always easier to cut something that's a little too much than to try and put something there that the mic couldn't really capture in the first place.

Honestly, I'd try an SM57 if you don't have one. Kind of a poor man's SM7b...
 
The sm57 is a good alternative to the sm7 but keep in mind you have to use a pop filter. I use the sm7 on live uses, but I modify my mic to interface with all mic preamps (by adding a step up transformer like what is in the sm58/sm57).

Shure 7b. + Studio Projects VTB1 is the cheapest mic pre that has the input circuit shure designed sm7 around (broadcast boards that have mic input impeadance of 100-200 ohms) Popular mic preamps that are typically used in your premium recording studios with the sm7 is the API 312, Chandler Limited TG2, BAE 1073MP, John Hardy M-1.


Be sure to use a balanced 1/4"trs to 1/4"trs cable to connect an external mic pre to the ur22. The 1/4" input on the ur22 is balanced trs and bypasses the Mic's phantom blocking caps. Which is the cause of the degradation of the signal when you normally connect a mic pre to a mic pre.
 
Back
Top