Sennheiser MK4 versus Neumann TLM103 and the law of diminishing returns

wheelema

wheelema

Boner-obo
A friend and I compared my MK4 to his TLM103 on a guitar solo (via USBPre 2 / Toshiba Satellite Pro / Sony Sound Forge Audio Studio 10 @ 24/48 normalized only).

My brother-in-law worked in pro audio and in his opinion there wasn't $800 worth of difference. In all honesty there wasn't $.08 worth of difference. My friend was rather bummed. There's this expectation that spending big bucks equates to good quality and going cheap (if you can rationalize that spending $300 is 'cheap') results in poor quality.

It just ain't necessarily so.

We'll be doing female vocals next. I'll throw the MP3s up when I have better connectivity.
 
Sennheiser MK4 triumphs! Huzzah! :D

Thanks Wheelie, I was actually going to ask you about this the other day!
 
guitaristic said:
Sennheiser MK4 triumphs! Huzzah! :D

Thanks Wheelie, I was actually going to ask you about this the other day!
Click to expand...

I didn't want to invoke the righteous wrath of any Neumann zealots but the consensus of everyone who heard the comparison was that the MK4 was superior. Clear, crisp, and captured the high end better. I appreciate that the TLM103 is arguably the poorest performer in the Neumann line, but people often equate money=better and too often it just ain't so.


TLM103
MK4

I hosted these on SoundClick and boy, was THAT a mistake. I had to work through one of the most intrusive Q&A I've ever dealt with. WTF does my sexual preferences have to do with music???
 
Cool! I like the sound clips. I didn't think the TLM 103 sounded all that bad, just kinda boomy personally. I'd really love to see the same type of A/B'ing but with a TLM 102! That'd be intense!
 
wheelema said:
I didn't want to invoke the righteous wrath of any Neumann zealots but the consensus of everyone who heard the comparison was that the MK4 was superior. Clear, crisp, and captured the high end better. I appreciate that the TLM103 is arguably the poorest performer in the Neumann line, but people often equate money=better and too often it just ain't so.


TLM103
MK4

I hosted these on SoundClick and boy, was THAT a mistake. I had to work through one of the most intrusive Q&A I've ever dealt with. WTF does my sexual preferences have to do with music???
Click to expand...

While I could definately hear the differences in the timbre of the two mics on this particular source, I would say that neither was particularly suited for it. It did demonstrate the tonality of the two though in a way that could be useful in choosing a mic for someone who didnt have the ability to audition them.

As for being "arguably the poorest performer of the line", I think the TLM103 has its moments but is a mic that seems to be very source dependent and (not much is made of this) is one of those mics that is very responsive to the input impedance loading and sensitivity of the mic pre.

Good job BTW.
 
The TLM 103 is actually an excellent mic., but it's not for e everyone.

Sometimes it will show up poor mic. pre-amps and the user will often blame the mic. rather than the mic. pre..

Having said this, the MK4 is excellent value for money - but I would also look at the Neumann TLM 102 (very different from the 103), the TLM 49 and the Gefell M930 and/or M903Ts (the M930Ts won the mipa best mic. award at Musikmesse/ProLight+Sound in Frankfurt a couple of days ago).

mipa-trophy-2011.jpg
 
John Willett said:
The TLM 103 is actually an excellent mic., but it's not for everyone.

Sometimes it will show up poor mic. pre-amps and the user will often blame the mic. rather than the mic. pre...
Click to expand...

Given that observation do you believe that the pres in the USBPre 2 were a detriment?
 
I also wish to point out that it's not so much whether the TLM103 was superior or whether the MK4 was superior but whether there was $700 worth of difference between them.

I know that the USBPre 2 has decent pres and converters, that the MK4 is a solid low noise large condenser. Sure I'd have loved to pop for a Lynx converter, a Avalon pre, and a Gefell M930 Twin mic but let's be honest... would I be getting $10,000 worth of superior sound?

For me that'd be a tough sell.
 
uh sorry no 103 beats mk4

if you cant hear a diff between the senn mk4 and neumann 103 you dont have very good ears, or decent preamps, or your source does not reveal the differences. Having had both these and trying them on just about everything, the senn is thin and harsh, which the uninitiated may hear as "clear" but its the same hyped high end scritchiness that most chinese mics have. Transients were smeared not accurate, also there was a weired resonance due to prob the body or capsule. Not worth the cost. not a better mic than most chinese in that price range by any means...as I believe the mk4 is chinese made...sure sounds like it. Its just a budget mic for those starting out that will sell it soon after they acquire the means and ear to move upwards. The TLM103 is something else, and yes worth the extra whatever difference more, but ebay prices on them are very low so you can ofter get a used 103 for not much more than the new senn (ok maybe double it). The 103 is well balanced overall, has a clear high end presence that gives a bit of focus to sources that may need it, but thru a bright cheap preamp may be too much for some. On a decent preamp not harsh at all, can be silky sounding. Transients are slightly rounded, which is nice to avoid edginess. Low end is controlled...not thin or thick...just right for most sources. The mids have good detail. I dont hear any weird dips or peaks. Overall a very good useful general studio use mic very good on most anything. Is it the best on everything? no. is is a u87? no. p.s. the even cheaper tlm102 is a smoother fatter mic, not as airy or detailed as the 103. The 102 is ok for lower end things not needing airy top...like elec guitar, etc. The senn mk4 was just useless for me. just another chinese mic. that makes the 103 worth the 700 more to me. YMMV. In your bedroom you may not be able to percieve the differences. Learning gear takes time, and money, and patience, and skill. Quik off the cuff takes often change as your skills and other gear increases. Yes its tempting to go the cheap route, but in this case there s a difference. I have had prob somewhere between 50 and 100 mics over the years so I have some perspective in comparisons.
 
Er, again, nobody said there's no difference or that they can't hear a difference. The question is "was there $700 in difference?". That's a very different thing.

I have a couple of TLM series mics (the 104 and the 102--not 103 hence me staying out of this thread) and both now spend most of their time in that cupboard. I've found other, generally cheaper mics that I usually like better. On the right subject material the Neumanns are lovely but they're pretty fussy--even the 102 which as a pretty good reputation for vocals. Instead, my go to mic has become the sE2200A--it's much cheaper but works on a much wider range of material, often sounding better (at least subjectively to my ears) and rarely sounding worse. I don't own an MK4 but I'm happy to believe that it works in a similar manner.

No...most expensive is NOT always best.
 
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