Samson R11 problem

[FireZtreaM]

Hi guys and girls! I have a small problem. When i connect my SAMSON R11 directly to my computer it's dead. It's not picking up any sound what so ever.

But if i connect my SAMSON R11 through my NanoVerb, it works just fine. Why is that?
I've read that condenser microphones need phantom power, but this is a dynamic microphone, and those doesn't need phantom power, right? So what's wrong?

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi,
You're correct. A dynamic microphone doesn't need any kind of power supply.

What cable are you using to connect to the computer, and what software are you using to determine that it's not working?

 

[FireZtreaM]

I'm using an XLR to 6.3 mm cable with an adapter from 6.3 mm to 3.5 mm directly into my computer. That doesn't work.

And right now i'm using the same XLR to 6.3 mm cable to my NanoVerb, and then a 6.3 mm to 3.5 mm adapter and a 3.5 mm cable from my NanoVerb to my computer. That works just fine.

As for software to determine that it's not working, just windows own soundboard and mumble. At least in mumble, i can clearly see that it's not picking up any sound what so ever when it's connected directly to the computer.

EDIT: Here's some soundfiles. First one is with my microphone connected directly to my computer and the second one is with my microphone connected through my nanoverb.

Dropbox - Mumble-2017-06-22-22-49-43-imaginea.se-Recorder.wav
"Testing testing, this is a microphone test with the microphone connected directly to my computer."

Dropbox - Mumble-2017-06-22-22-52-21-imaginea.se-Recorder.wav
"Testing testing, this is a microphone test with my microphone connected through my nanoverb."

 

[Steenamaroo]

Is the 6.3 to 3.5 balanced or unbalanced? If you're not sure, does it have two black (or whatever colour) bands or one?

 

[FireZtreaM]

It looks kind of like this. So two bands.


But the 3.5 mm cable i'm using between the nanoverb and my computer is also a stereo cable (two bands).

 

[Steenamaroo]

Ok,
Best guess is the computer expects to see the signal over tip and sleeve, which is exactly what the alesis left mono output would give it,
whereas the microphone conductors when plugged in directly are over tip and ring, with sleeve being the mic body.

The Alesis input expects mono unbalanced and most likely ties ring to sleeve on the way in whereas, I guess, the computer does not do this?
Maybe because it's a stereo input...maybe it's a balanced input. Maybe it's a combo line/mic jack? I don't know.


If you tried using the alesis but took your output from right, rather than left, it shouldn't work and would support my idea, I think...?

 

[arcaxis]

I've been able to connect a dynamic mic into a computer with one of these cables >>> Microphone Cable - Hosa Technology
It's wired to 'convert' the balanced mic connection to unbalanced mono left and right. If you look at the wiring diagram in the link 1 and 3 are tied together to the sleeve (ground) and 2 (hot) is connected to the ring and tip which would be left and right for a jack to accepts a stereo input.
I believe your cable and adapter used with the mic may be applying two out of phase signals to the computers left and right (tip/ring) and the out of phase signals cancel each other out so nothing is heard.
The Nanoverbs jacks are designed to accept either balanced TRS or unbalanced TS plugs and the jack is wired to make balanced into unbalanced which make your mic work OK.. The schematic below shows the jacks in the Nanoverb and the ring of a TRS when plugged in would be made common to the sleeve and ground.
Nanoverb Service Manual

 

[Steenamaroo]

It's wired to 'convert' the balanced mic connection to unbalanced mono left and right. If you look at the wiring diagram in the link 1 and 3 are tied together to the sleeve (ground) and 2 (hot) is connected to the ring and tip which would be left and right for a jack to accepts a stereo input.

I don't think a computer mic input would be stereo. More likely the ring isn't connected giving the same result.
Your cable, or simply an unbalanced size adapter (tying ring to sleeve), should sort it out, I think.

 

[arcaxis]

I don't think a computer mic input would be stereo. More likely the ring isn't connected giving the same result.
Your cable, or simply an unbalanced size adapter (tying ring to sleeve), should sort it out, I think.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it would be stereo. The ring connection for a typical computer mic usually carries the plugin power for an electret type mic. Not sure what is would do for one side of a balanced jack coming into it.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Ah, I didn't know that! Thanks.

 

[FireZtreaM]

I've been able to connect a dynamic mic into a computer with one of these cables >>> Microphone Cable - Hosa Technology
It's wired to 'convert' the balanced mic connection to unbalanced mono left and right. If you look at the wiring diagram in the link 1 and 3 are tied together to the sleeve (ground) and 2 (hot) is connected to the ring and tip which would be left and right for a jack to accepts a stereo input.
I believe your cable and adapter used with the mic may be applying two out of phase signals to the computers left and right (tip/ring) and the out of phase signals cancel each other out so nothing is heard.
The Nanoverbs jacks are designed to accept either balanced TRS or unbalanced TS plugs and the jack is wired to make balanced into unbalanced which make your mic work OK.. The schematic below shows the jacks in the Nanoverb and the ring of a TRS when plugged in would be made common to the sleeve and ground.
Nanoverb Service Manual

Without actually understanding much of that schematic, i think i understand that the problem is that the channel that is on the mid ring on my adapter actually gets connected to the ground of the microphone cable when i use my adapter? And since computers do have both left and right channels for microphones, one of the channels is connected to the ground, and therefore cancel out the sound? Do i understand this kind of right?

Btw, i checked how my cable was wired, and i edited the wiring diagram from your link to represent my cable instead.
Dropbox - microphone_cable.png

Also, before i checked this thread again, i actually tried this with the built in sound card on my motherboard using the same cable and adapter. With that sound card it actually picked up sound, but very, very low. Is this because of the same problem, or is it because of something else? I read on a swedish forum that some microphones may require a microphone amplifier. Do you think i'll need that for this microphone?

And btw, thank you so much for taking your time to read and help me with this!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Sorry, can I just clarify....

In the original post were you testing

mic -> alesis -> PC mic-input
and
mic -> PC mic-input


If so, were you trying the PC line-input in your most recent post?



I just want to be sure because the adapter drawing you posted represents what I was suggesting as a fix, so I'd expect it to be working.

 

[FireZtreaM]

Sorry, can I just clarify....

In the original post were you testing

mic -> alesis -> PC mic-input
and
mic -> PC mic-input


If so, were you trying the PC line-input in your most recent post?



I just want to be sure because the adapter drawing you posted represents what I was suggesting as a fix, so I'd expect it to be working.

Here's how i've been connecting it to both sound cards:
Dropbox - IMAG0429.jpg
This "kind of" works on one sound card, but not at all on the other one. And on the one that it "kind of work" on, the sound it's picking up is really really low.

And the drawing was for the XLR to 6.3 mm cable.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Here's how i've been connecting it to both sound cards:
Dropbox - IMAG0429.jpg
This "kind of" works on one sound card, but not at all on the other one. And on the one that it "kind of work" on, the sound it's picking up is really really low.

And the drawing was for the XLR to 6.3 mm cable.

Oh, I see. You have two soundcards? What are they?

The one that is sort of working but really low is most likely a stereo line input.
If that is the case, and to answer your previous question, yes...You'd generally want to put a mic preamp in the chain.

The other is probably a mic input, though, since it worked fine, albeit with the nanoverb in the chain.
If you can get it to work directly you shouldn't need to buy anything.

I suspect maybe the mic and cable are fine but the little adapter (grounding the computer's input ring) is causing the problem.

You don't happen to have a 6.3 - 3.5 unbalanced to test with? Silly question....

 

[FireZtreaM]

Oh, I see. You have two soundcards? What are they?

The one that is sortof working but really low is most likely a stereo line input.

The other - I suspect maybe the mic and cable are fine but the little adapter (grounding the computer's input ring) is causing the problem.

You don't happen to have a 6.3 - 3.5 unbalanced to test with? Silly question....

One of them is the integrated sound card on my motherboard. That one has a Realtek ALC892 chip. That's the one that i get a really low sound from.

The other one is a generic usb sound card.. I've got no clue what so ever what it actually is. That one doesn't work at all.

I'm also starting to think that the adapter is the problem. And i think computer sound cards normally has support for stereo microphones, which would mean that i'm grounding one of the channels.

Unfortunally, i don't have a 6.3 - 3.5 unbalanced adapter. But, maybe i could insulate the middle ring on my adapter just to see if that makes any difference at all? That should?! allow it to function on either the left or the right channel at least, right? This might be a really stupid idea, but I want to know if it will work before i buy a new cable.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Realtek onboard sound generally gives you mic input and line input separately.
Most often the mic socket is pink.
Which one are you testing with? You should be able to get a reasonable level out of it.
If you're definitely using the mic input socket, have a look in windows audio settings and see if there's an input level option and/or a microphone boost option.


Funny, I was thinking that. I'd insulate on the 1/4" plug because it'll be much easier to poke back out, should it come off.
Put some thin tape around the 1/4" plug where the ring would be....If you're keen.

 

[FireZtreaM]

Realtek onboard sound generally gives you mic input and line input separately.
Most often the mic socket is pink.
Which one are you testing with? You should be able to get a reasonable level out of it.
If you're definitely using the mic input socket, have a look in windows audio settings and see if there's an input level option and/or a microphone boost option.


Funny, I was thinking that. I'd insulate on the 1/4" plug because it'll be much easier to poke back out, should it come off.
Put some thin tape around the 1/4" plug where the ring would be....If you're keen.

I tried with the microphone socket. The pink one.

I'll try to insulate it right away.. I'll be back with a report in a few min!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Cool cool.

 

[arcaxis]

I dug around in the cable drawer and found the XLR to 1/4" TS cable you have (continuity checked it to make sure it was wired like the diagram you showed). Also had a 6.3 to 3.5 stereo adapter. Plugged it all up into the input jack and figured out the settings in the Windows control panel and Audacity. Made a short count off recording... attached mp3. The mic I used is a Sennheiser e935 dynamic which has a fairly hot output and I was pretty much on the grill for the recording. There is noise in the background which maybe could have been made less if I played with the gains a bit more, but this was just to show the mic does work with the cable setup you have. The HOSA cable I linked I tried as well and that worked about the same.

The common input jack on my computer is either MIC or LINE and is manually selected with a popup window

 

[Steenamaroo]

The other one is a generic usb sound card.. I've got no clue what so ever what it actually is. That one doesn't work at all.

Starting to think we came at this the wrong way.
Any chance the generic USB sound card is just broken?

Edit: Nevermind - it worked fine as Mic -> Alesis -> USB card, right?
As you were.