Recording vocals: what're you using?

See, what I don't get is that ever since i had a Tascam US 1641 or then later the US 1800, I had enough gain to run the SM7b without issue. Those were not that high of gain preamps as far as I know, but they worked for any input to the mic with any signal level that wasn't a wimpy whisper vocal. Now I really do not have a good judgment as I have moved on to other stuff.

I don't quite get why a preamp/interface with less gain is not able to use such a mic. Maybe I am just not getting it because I have the gain on my gear. Why not just add gain later?
 
"I don't quite get why a preamp/interface with less gain is not able to use such a mic. Maybe I am just not getting it because I have the gain on my gear. Why not just add gain later? "

I don't get it either Jimmy. There are those that claim you MUST have gain in hand because (somehow!) running a pre amp flat out is a "Bad Thing" but nothing I know about electronics tells me that is the case.

It is a fact that a very basic mic pre will produce more distortion at max gain but the amounts are small and in any case, by definition the input is low so WTF? Some of the early AIs gave a sudden jump in noise at the last few degrees of gain knob rotation e.g. M-A Fast track pro but I can wind my KA6 to the end stop, record acoustic guitar with a 57 (at about a foot) and still have the 'room' set the noise floor.

"Confirmation bias" for those with deep pockets James?

Dave.
 
Making up a bit of gain in the DAW has near zero downsides.
In most cases the mic pre's noise is below our room noises. And the converter's noise is below that yet again. Float point noise in the DAW is ..well :>)
 
Making up a bit of gain in the DAW has near zero downsides.
In most cases the mic pre's noise is below our room noises. And the converter's noise is below that yet again. Float point noise in the DAW is ..well :>)

Jusfort. (caff levels low) The idea of high gain might be a hangover from Tape days? In a digital setup the noise floor IS set by the mic pre (physics) but as you say Mix' usually below ambient noise. Mic pres were always better than tape and so they did not notice or care!

Dave.
 
I can only assume the 2i2 is particularly noisy at high gain.
This is why I erred originally; I used to use a 7b with digi003 claiming 47db gain and never really had a problem.
I didn't like the sound of it much, but the signal was healthy and quiet enough.
The 2i2 claims 50db, I think, so I figured yeah..sure. It'll be fine. :)

I don't really get why any AI has low gain, all the same.
My firestudio mobile claims 80db. I find that hard to believe but, on the other hand, its output is just as healthy (and quiet) as my nice console pres.
It's not like it's rammed with fancy tubes and custom wound transformers. It's still a couple of pence in a box, as far as I know.
 
I have an id14, I imagine it’s similar to the interfaces people are talking about. The preamps aren’t bad but you do get some noise cranking it. And I did have to crank it for a 57 or re20 on acoustic guitar or quiet voices. I had a cloudlifter for a couple years, it fixed that problem. But now I’ve sold the cloudlifter and got a 1073 clone and converter and just go in digital.
 
I have an id14, I imagine it’s similar to the interfaces people are talking about. The preamps aren’t bad but you do get some noise cranking it. And I did have to crank it for a 57 or re20 on acoustic guitar or quiet voices. I had a cloudlifter for a couple years, it fixed that problem. But now I’ve sold the cloudlifter and got a 1073 clone and converter and just go in digital.

What was used on Island Hopping album?
 
I have a hard time remembering, I was doing upgrades as we went. But I’m pretty sure we started with id14 / rode ntk, did a few with la610 / c414, and finished with bae1073mpf / c414. Any of those was perfectly usable but I was chasing tone. :P
 
Any time you have a low-sensitivity mic without much of it's own gain you have to turn up the amplifying device in order to get a usable level into your recording medium. Turning up amplification devices adds noise. But you all know this already....right? Even if it's a small amount of noise and you can boost the track in your digital capture....it's still noise and what do you think happens to it @ boosting? Oh, now you have to clean it up with some plugin. Further degrading the signal. And then there's the aspect of not 'filling the track' ...I guess a lot of folks don't really understand this concept at all. When you have a bunch of lights on with your levels, and no secondary noise, you have a better full-range track of whatever it is you have recorded. Less manipulation required....and don't try and convince me that digital is different than tape in the aspect. It sounds different but the concept of recording clean and clear tracks is no different.

I own an SM-7B. It's my fourth one. The first was an actual SM-7. Now THAT mic had zero gain but it sounded really good. And you had to seriously bring up the noise floor to get any traction with it. It's why I bought a B.

I don't like noise floor. Not at all. No one should unless it's an integral part of your Space Odyssey Recordings from Pluto......Without a discernible noise floor to deal with ( and I will ferret out ALL of it) it makes for clearer recordings. Which, if the materials good, makes better records which makes people happy.

I strive for LESS IS MORE...less plugs for certain! As good as the emulations of classics and the new sounding stuff is, nothing beats a truly well-captured track.
 
My recent favorite vocal mic is the Lewitt LCT-440 PURE. Before that it was an Avantone CV-12. That goes into a BAE 1073, and usually into 1 or 2 Distressors. My vocals still suck, but it's a whole lot of fun recording them.
 
nice vocal chain though, never had a distressor but the massive positive comments are very cool, in a gearhead way a classic was added to the LA2A, 1176 list...Emperical Labs just got the recipe right it seems. I think it comes from just having a very well done line.

im with cavedog on this approach and gain staging, and getting it best upfront...and also trying to keep doctoring with plugs at a minimum.

interesting thread:eatpopcorn:

im an old newbie, but recently its running a vocal into the DAW and seeing the full wave without normailizing or anything, its just there bigger and sounds better and less work later is great.

I know on my system, i have to work at not getting lazy and getting the latency as low as possible etc...

with hardware tracking its just a bit faster and clear, probably miniscule in tone at times, but its there and easier even though it goes against the pleasure just having a mic into a interface is pretty streamlined in a nice way too....having a mic into a really nice channel strip with some comp, old school is really a treat too, I prefer the latter to be honest for Tracking.

SM7b and a well done high gain preamp outboard, with some "character" of the hardware is a beautiful thing....hell maybe its 50% placebo? I dont know. I think vibed up placebo effect is alright when tracking...
 
The use of an outboard VERY GOOD pre amp can result in a lower electrical noise floor (Why Cloudlifters and Fetheads etc exist) but the fact is it does not matter WHERE the 'gain' comes from. Super low noise cap' mic circuits, dedicated devices such as the C'lifters OR a low noise AI pre amp, it is the final result that matters.
Yes, it is nice to see a big, fat wave from a mic with the "system gain" at say 75% but it is the signal to noise ratio that matters and the fact is there are plenty of AI with modest gains that achieve a noise floor BETTER that the bedroom recordist's "room noise". The signal might be low but boosting that digitally will make NO DIFFERENCE to the original S/N ratio. Yes, ambient noise comes up but SO would it with a Grace 101!

There is an almost perfect analogy with a decent 24bit AI and a bog S 16 bit USB mixer. In a quiet home the mixer gives poor results. The mic pres can be very good (my ZED10 e.g.) but the noise floor is unlikely to be better than -80dBFS..BUT! Take that mixer down the Mucky Duck and record the incumbent band and the noise floor ceases to matter! The pub noise is ALWAYS way above even the grot 16bit capability.

Dave.
 
nice vocal chain though, never had a distressor but the massive positive comments are very cool, in a gearhead way a classic was added to the LA2A, 1176 list...Emperical Labs just got the recipe right it seems. I think it comes from just having a very well done line.

im with cavedog on this approach and gain staging, and getting it best upfront...and also trying to keep doctoring with plugs at a minimum.

interesting thread:eatpopcorn:

im an old newbie, but recently its running a vocal into the DAW and seeing the full wave without normailizing or anything, its just there bigger and sounds better and less work later is great.

I know on my system, i have to work at not getting lazy and getting the latency as low as possible etc...

with hardware tracking its just a bit faster and clear, probably miniscule in tone at times, but its there and easier even though it goes against the pleasure just having a mic into a interface is pretty streamlined in a nice way too....having a mic into a really nice channel strip with some comp, old school is really a treat too, I prefer the latter to be honest for Tracking.

SM7b and a well done high gain preamp outboard, with some "character" of the hardware is a beautiful thing....hell maybe its 50% placebo? I dont know. I think vibed up placebo effect is alright when tracking...

Thanks man. I really love those compressors. They're totally unnecessary in an amateur home studio, but I set my mind on them and found them at a reasonable price on Reverb. Same for the BAE...it took a few months of having email alerts set up, but one finally came up at a price I could somewhat digest. Again, totally unnecessary but a whole lot of fun to use!
 
Electrovoice N/D 757 for a more controlled response/compression.
Audio Technica AT 2020. Running everything through a Zoom H4n.
 
My 2 vocal mics are the AKG C214 AND AKG C3000B, The C214 is new and the C3000B is gently used but about 15 years old. Mixed results, some great recordings with the C3000B although it is suppose to be the worst vocal mic ever. The C214 is nice but giving me a bit more sibilance trouble. It's always something.
 
It totally depends on the sound I want. Not that I record much these days, but, I have a Studio Projects B1 condenser mic, I have 2 Shure SM58 Dynamic mics, can't go wrong with a 58, My son has an SM57 that I borrow sometimes, it's really nice for vocals, I also have vintage Electro-Voice 650 dynamic mike which is really nice too. All have different sounds so I use which ever works best for a situation.
 
it was funny this weekend going through a bunch of mic comparison clips and sometimes the $49 PG48 sounded ok....everything sounded kind of bland clean and every mic could sound pretty good with compression and some preamp/plug tone.

a few SM57's and a nice channel strip would be fine probably. do the "save as" and your ready to go work on the next weak link...:D
 
I wish there was a good way to demo every mic in the 800.00 or less range. As I stated I have an AKG C214 new and an AKG C3000B, new to me but 15 years old. While these are not bad mics and some really like the C214 I still think there is a better mic out there for my voice. I just hate to keep buying mics only to find that I'm close but have not found that "Oh Wow " one. Too bad because I probably will only be singing for a few more years. I hate to keep throwing money away on mics when the end is in sight. I may try one more as many seem to really like the Rhode mics. They are not horribly expensive.
 
I wish there was a good way to demo every mic in the 800.00 or less range. As I stated I have an AKG C214 new and an AKG C3000B, new to me but 15 years old. While these are not bad mics and some really like the C214 I still think there is a better mic out there for my voice. I just hate to keep buying mics only to find that I'm close but have not found that "Oh Wow " one. Too bad because I probably will only be singing for a few more years. I hate to keep throwing money away on mics when the end is in sight. I may try one more as many seem to really like the Rhode mics. They are not horribly expensive.

There used to be a way. Did it a bunch with a member here who had two or three of everything. He would send me mics to try out.

But sadly Moresound either got busy or the turmoil of the arrogant that used to frequent this site encouraged him to not post here anymore. Looking at his FB site I think he is just enjoying the tranquility...
 
Back
Top