Presonus Firepod + which mic for rap?

F

fleaster

New member
Ok I'm kinda starting out here producing hip hop music - I have a Shure SM58 and a Presonus Firepod, but wanted to upgrade to a condensor mic for rap vocals... (say <$US600) one which I hopefully won't have to upgrade for a long time! :)

...just wondering for those of u who've used the Firepod, what mic combos go well with it... I've been looking into the Rode NT1A, but wanted to get a second opinion.. any one got any other advice? :)
 
My only advice is don't ask this question. "Which mic for rap?" is an invitation for ridicule and insults around these parts.

OK, I'll offer some advice - the bottom line is you need to try some and find what works well for your voice, regardless of the genre of music. Maybe if you described your voice, and the sound you are going for, it might help a bit. maybe.
 
What's the best mic for rap vocals?


Ridicule!


No no, its true - this really is an insanely complex thing to ask, in the hopes of a simple answer - however, everyone has been here at one point or other, so I won't go on, at least not in a sarcastic sense.

The straight answer is , as stated - there is no microphone designed for one type of music over the other - it is simply a matter of matching a mic to your voice, and as much as this might not seem important, there really is a big difference.

A mic I own that sounds great for my voice has sounded like crap on everyone I've ever worked with / played with. I hang onto it because it works for me.

But if you are looking for a general workhorse mic, search the mic forum for "vocal" - you should get about 9,000 hits for threads discussing just this topic. Sort by most replies, and start reading.

However, to get you started, I can suggest a few things, one is that you don't necessarily need a condenser. A condenser is more apt to expose the low-quality of the room you are recording in. Two dynamics that get a lot of use around here are the Electrovoice RE20, and the Shure SM7-B.

As for condensers, many find the Rode microphone line to be harsh, and I tend to agree. The only Rodes I like are the NT3, which is better for live than studio, and the K2, which is out of your price range.

The Studio Projects line of microphones gets good praise around here, among the cheaper condensers you can find these days. Again, I am just tossing out general brands here that people seem to get along with in as many settings as possible - since I figure you won't have the option of doing a 10-mic shootout to find which one suits you best. I know all about the "try before you buy" issue, since you can't return mics to many music stores nowadays. You can try in-store, but that isn't going to be representative of the rest of your signal chain, so it can only get you so close to knowing how it will work.

Like I said, search around, and then come back asking questions about, perhaps, a narrowed set of choices.
 
I think the Studio Projects T3 is something in your price range you might want to look at. Of course you probably also want to budget for some good compression (either plug-ins or hardware.)

So something like an AT3060 for under $240 might be another contender.
 
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in your price range i'd think you can step out of the studio projects and into something a little better.

sure ksm series
rode nt2a / 1000
maybe a used AT4050 (do this if you can, and mind the numbers AT makes a lot of mics)

don't overlook a better dynamic, some of them are really kick ass
sure sm7b
heil pr40
ev re-20 (would have to be used)

out of all of these mics the closest to a "sure thing" is probably the used audio technica 4050

happy hunting.
 
The simple answer is that ... it doesn't really matter.

It's just rap. You're talking. Over a beat. Don't sweat too hard over it.

:D
 
What's the best mic for rap vocals?


Ridicule!
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hehe that was not actually my primary question... soo before i get stoned more ;), lemme clarify and comment on a few things:

1) my main question is more along the lines of: I have a Presonus Firepod - for ppl that have had experience w/ this interface, is there any particular combination of mics that stand out or are there any particular ones to stay away from? :) (taking into a/c that I will be using it for rapping)

e.g. I have heard of the Electrovoice RE20, but I hear it requires alot of gain...?

2) why is it Sound Engineers always recommend Dynamic mics for rap, while Hip Hop Producers recommend Condensers?? (in many forums I've been to this seems to be the case :))

3) Yes, everyone says "use ur ears", and I totally agree with that - but when researching and shopping on the Net, that's a little hard - and when u're shelling out $500+ at a time, it's not always economically practical to use the "trial and error" method :)

4) fyi my voice is kinda tenor :)

...ok... fire away hehe :)
 
fleaster said:
hehe that was not actually my primary question... soo before i get stoned more ;), lemme clarify and comment on a few things:

1) my main question is more along the lines of: I have a Presonus Firepod - for ppl that have had experience w/ this interface, is there any particular combination of mics that stand out or are there any particular ones to stay away from? :) (taking into a/c that I will be using it for rapping)

e.g. I have heard of the Electrovoice RE20, but I hear it requires alot of gain...?

2) why is it Sound Engineers always recommend Dynamic mics for rap, while Hip Hop Producers recommend Condensers?? (in many forums I've been to this seems to be the case :))

3) Yes, everyone says "use ur ears", and I totally agree with that - but when researching and shopping on the Net, that's a little hard - and when u're shelling out $500+ at a time, it's not always economically practical to use the "trial and error" method :)

4) fyi my voice is kinda tenor :)

...ok... fire away hehe :)
Click to expand...

#2. Because you are probably looking not to spend a suitcase full of money. If you have a couple grand for a mic, go with a condenser, and get the much cheaper dynamic for a backup.

Also, why do you have a firepod if you're doing rap? Wouldn't you only need at most a couple inputs at once?
 
Presonus makes a decent mic pre, you should be able to get a decent condenser mic and make it work...you asked a specific question...my answer although not exactly as specified, I use a Presonus Eureka (I don't use the built-in fx's) and the Rode K2, have used this combination on baritones, tenors, male, female vocalist and yes a rapper with good results. I also plug the K2 into my Ghost console for different miking combinations...if you look around you might find one used...slim, but maybe. I don't know where you are at in your recording experience, but a couple tokes and a SM58 will go along way.
 
I only suggested dynamics because you asked specifically about condenser mics, and there always seems to be that one person who pipes up and mentions that you don't necessarily need to use a condenser because you want good vocals.

And that person was me!

However, you are correct in the fact that the RE20 requires a fair bit of gain, and to be honest, the Firepod's preamps aren't that good, especially when you crank em (past 3 o'clock is where the shit really hits the fan on my unit on the gain knobs).

I prefer to run any mics I use through my DMP-3, and then run a balanced line into the Firepod. Honestly, the pre's on the Firepod seem a lot fussier about what they will work with than the DMP3's. Some of my mics sound very muffled through the Firepod pre's but sound fine through the M-Audio.

Others can comment on whether you should invest in an outboard preamp, after having invested in an interface that has them built-in.

Moving on to microphones! I've heard good things about the Rode NTK, with the tube swapped out (similar to the K2 with tube swap, which I have). I think that mic would fit in your price range, but at the moment I don't remember exactly what it was you had said. The Audio technica's mentioned above I've also heard and liked. As for compatibility with the Firepod, again - you may do well to go to GC and have them set up a Firepod, and just plug the mics into each channel, and listen over a decent pair of headphones.

You don't even need to connect the interface to a computer, as you probably know. Now, I know this won't be representative of the room you're recording in, or the monitoring system you have for mixing, etc., but it will get you some idea of whether this or that mic sounds harsh on your voice / too muted, etc.
 
fleaster said:
2) why is it Sound Engineers always recommend Dynamic mics for rap, while Hip Hop Producers recommend Condensers?? (in many forums I've been to this seems to be the case :))
Click to expand...

My guess (and that's all it is) is that Condensors tend to pick up the room (and the neighbors lawn mower, and the refrigerator hum, etc.) a lot more, so unless you've already shelled out some decent cash on room treatment, and sound proofing, a condensor might cause problems.

FWIW, I just bought a SM7B and love it - not for Rap, mind you. It's very silky smooth, and as others have said elsewhere, vocals on that mic seem to "mix themselves."

Finally, I was just trying to warn you about the "best mic for rap" typical response. I, for one, could care less. And based on all the smileys in your follow up post, I can't help but give you some positive rep. :D
 
If u want a condenser, the shure ksm27 is great for hip hop vocals. It has a good even frequency response that is not hyped. What u put in is what you get out. If your going for the "sheeny" trebly type rap vocals(think lil wayne), i'm not sure where to point you at. All i can say is the ksm27 is a great mic that will stay with you for a while. I used my friend's ksm27 and it's great. I use a Studio Projects C1 or Adk A-51 type V for my vocals.
 
I've only recorded rap once, and that was on a 4 track that I brought to my classroom... but...

Someone mentioned budgeting for a compressor. I'm sure you'll be using a compressor that's bundled with your cubase or whatever software.

But getting a useable, tweakable llittle outboard compressor as an insert during recording as you're learning would be a great addition to your learning experience. I think of the percussive delivery as something that benefits a lot from the smoothing out that a compressor will do.

I just think that would do more for your sound than an expensive mic.

Nobody's heaped any ridicule on you yet... that says loads for how well you came accross in your post. I guess a lot of kids looking to record rap tend to throw a lot of texting abbreviations and grammatical horrors into their posts.
 
BRIEFCASEMANX said:
Also, why do you have a firepod if you're doing rap? Wouldn't you only need at most a couple inputs at once?
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thanks for taking the time to read and respond guys, is much appreciated :) ...fyi, I am using an MPC (old skooool! ;)), hence need 6-8 inputs to track my beats... On a side note I also like to use my (upgraded) MPC as a multitrack recorder, with my Firepod's pre's in the middle of the chain... :)

...I am liking the look of the AT4050 (altho I find it difficult to tell the difference b/w all the AT models) and the KSM27 more and more - the latter especially cause the name "Shure" sends shivers down my spine :p
...so am leaning more towards the KSM27 at the moment (but who knows what I'll think tomorrow!)

...re: recommending dynamics vs condensers, I also have a theory that sound engineers seek perfection in a recording, while hip hop producers just want a raw sound... then again that's a generalization :)

Newayz... here's a question - when acquiring quality hardware for recording (and disregarding room treatment), what priority would u put on: (i) microphone (ii) preamp (iii) compressor/EQ?

Out of 100pts, I'm currently allocated at:
Mic 50
Preamp 50
Compressor/EQ 0 (using software)

...how would you guys allocate it out of 100? :)

P.S. i'm becoming disenchanted with the Firepod, hence am considering an outboard eq/comp. strip
 
Newayz... here's a question - when acquiring quality hardware for recording (and disregarding room treatment), what priority would u put on: (i) microphone (ii) preamp (iii) compressor/EQ?

Out of 100pts, I'm currently allocated at:
Mic 50
Preamp 50
Compressor/EQ 0 (using software)
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You forgot the popfilter. You'll need the one that costs $125 and is imported from Germany. (I'm kidding, maybe...)

Anyway, I guess you'd have to say that with any recording chain, the end result always depends on what came before it. You can't get back information that has already been lost.

So yeah, Performer > placement > mic > pre > effects in that order.

But be smart about how you spend your money. Dollars aren't the only way to solve a problem.
 
Why are you becoming disenchanted with your Firepod?

The idea is that it doesn't have that stuff built-in - you record your tracks as bare as possible on your computer, then manipulate the sound from there.

Trust me, you don't want to record the EQ, compression, effects, etc., and then end up stuck with them.

A little compression is all I could say you might want on the incoming signal, and I don't even bother with that.

Is there any other reason why you don't like the interface? Not to say there aren't reasons for liking/disliking it - Im not a fan of the pre's myself, as I mentioned above - but changing preamps is a little different than permanently pressing effects/eq/comp to a recorded track :)

I'd say, upgrade your mic, but don't blow the whole load... a used 4050 would be nice, but perhaps you don't want to spend that much. Once you get the mic, if you aren't satified with the sound, then I'd say your next step would be a better preamp (at least in my current experience, the DMP-3 is a much more neutral, clear preamp than those on the Firepod - the 'Pod seems to muffle my mics too much).
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
Nobody's heaped any ridicule on you yet... that says loads for how well you came accross in your post. I guess a lot of kids looking to record rap tend to throw a lot of texting abbreviations and grammatical horrors into their posts.
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I think he isn't getting ridiculed because he doesn't write posts like a retarded monkey with a typewriter missing half the vowel keys, and he isn't a cocky asshole :D

...humility can go a long way when asking what you and everyone else know are entry-level questions. I know, I've asked plenty myself on this forum :)
 
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