please advise on mics for recording vocals and acoustic guitar

petr1991

New member
Hi!

I need help!!!!

I have arround 600$ to spend on this, which from the research I've done should be enough. Anyway, I wanted a condenser mic for the vocals but I was told it would pick up the strumming or the 'playing' of the guitar as well. This means I would have to record the guitar and vocals seperately. This just doesn't feel as natural to me.

Is therre any way with two mics to record the guitar and the vocals at the same time? I know the condenser mic is very sensitive and will pick up anything so that's my dilemma. I could just use the condenser mic and place it between my face and the guitar to pick up both, but I feel that would take away from the vocals.


I have an acoustic guitar, but I can amp it. Idk what good that does, but yeah.




Basically I need a solution to this problem, not to exceed 600$. I'm very new to recording, but I've been playing for a while and I've been in chambers chorus since forever and all state and blah blah, and I just want to record something :-)


Thanks all!

Any feedback is very very welcome.
 
You could try setting up the mic so that the guitar is aimed at its back. It's kinda awkward and I have had mixed results.
You could also use a really nice dynamic mic. I have had the best results with this. The standard dynamic for vocals would be an sm7, I have been really digging the results I have been getting with an old EV re-11 that I have.
The other thing is that a little picking bleed is not the end of the world, a little bleed can sometimes make things sound more natural in the end.
You did not mention what your voice is like, but if you post that you can get answers from a few people who have had experience with alot more mics than me. Thats kinda the first trick is finding a mic that compliments your voice.(or the voice of who your tracking)
 
Dont know if this helps any buuut.....

I could never get comfortable over dubbing vocals - couldn't get a decent result due to it just feeling weird singing without playing guitar. Condensers pick up discomfort in the room! Now I record my guitars and when I over dub the vocals I sit down with the guitar just as if I were about to record it (but with the mic setup for a vocal), get a good balance in the headphones and as I record I just let my right arm strum away without hitting the strings and kind of trick myself into thinking I'm playing. Psychological buzz.

I Just read that back and it sounds stupid but It helped me loads.

Someone else will probably post something that actually answers your question. Sorry.
 
I have arround 600$ to spend on this, which from the research I've done should be enough. Anyway, I wanted a condenser mic for the vocals but I was told it would pick up the strumming or the 'playing' of the guitar as well.

You probably would do well to get both a large diaphragm condenser and a small diaphragm condensor. You can use both on the guitar (SDC at the 12th fret and the LDC just below the bridge) and then use just the LDC solo for vocals.

This means I would have to record the guitar and vocals seperately. This just doesn't feel as natural to me.

It never feels natural when you first try doing it. When I was working on my first cd, it didn't start to feel comfortable until I was about 7 or 8 songs into the album. However, it's absolutely a better way to record and you should force yourself to learn how to do it. Once you're comfortable with it, you'll be glad you made the effort because your recordings will be better for it.

Is therre any way with two mics to record the guitar and the vocals at the same time? I know the condenser mic is very sensitive and will pick up anything so that's my dilemma. I could just use the condenser mic and place it between my face and the guitar to pick up both, but I feel that would take away from the vocals.

If you're asking is there some way to record with two mics and not have the guitar bleed onto the vocal track and the vocal bleed onto the guitar track, the answer is no. You're going to get some bleeding and that's going to give you some issues to deal with when mixing, EQing, and adding any other effects.

I have an acoustic guitar, but I can amp it. Idk what good that does, but yeah.

If your guitar has a pickup, you can always record the guitar direct through it. I wouldn't amp up an acoustic though unless you don't want it to sound like an acoustic. You don't need a guitar amp to record through a guitar's pickup.

As far as microphone choices, you can google that here and get about a hundred different opinions. I'd suggest buying used mics because you'll save a bunch of money and if any mic isn't quite what you're looking for, you can sell it without losing any significant amount.

To stay under $600, I'd suggest for the SDC an AKG C451B. It retails for about $550 but you should be able to find it used for quite a bit less. You could also go with a pair of MXL 603 mics. A stereo pair goes for about $200 brand new and they're not bad. That would leave you a little more to put towards a vocal mic.

As for the LDC, it really depends on your voice. No one is going to be able to make a good recommendation without hearing you or at the very least having some description of what you sound like.
 
Is therre any way with two mics to record the guitar and the vocals at the same time? I know the condenser mic is very sensitive and will pick up anything so that's my dilemma. I could just use the condenser mic and place it between my face and the guitar to pick up both, but I feel that would take away from the vocals.

Like JTC said, bleed is a fact of life in a case like this...you can minimize it, but never elimiate it entirely. The trick is making it work for you...if you set things up properly you can reduce phase problems which is probably the biggest issue I see on these kind of recordings.

I'd look at an SM58 for the vocal and a KSM32 for the instrument depending on what preamp(s) you have available. Or a pair of KSM27's, though they're not my favorite on vocals.

Frank
 
thank you!

thank you so much for the responces, very helpful.


Anyway,
for my own 2 cents.



So from what I'm hearing bleed through doesn't have to be that bad?
I thought about it...aand if you're recording a guitar, and you record vocals with picking...then isnt it just basically gonna sound more realistic because yo uadd the picking into the mix? or hitting the strum s or what not.


Andd as for my voice? hmm, I'd tend to think I have a jazzy pop sounding voice (not that i like pop, but I guess that's what it sounds like) I do sing quite a bit of rock and it suits my voice and sounds decent, but I have a jazzy feel to it. the majority of what I sing is, Indie, rock, or acoustic or alternative.

In my chambers chorus, I've been given solos on Bono songs (U2). Don't mean to brag, and obviously my tonal quality issn't as good, just trying to make it easier for you guys to help me out here hahah.
Have a listen to MLK (MLK Tribute, live) or/ With or Without you.



Also, anyone think if I walk into daddys junky music they'd let me try all their stuff out? Cause I really wanna see how different methods work.

Thanks again!!!
 
So from what I'm hearing bleed through doesn't have to be that bad?
I thought about it...aand if you're recording a guitar, and you record vocals with picking...then isnt it just basically gonna sound more realistic because yo uadd the picking into the mix? or hitting the strum s or what not.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Don't mistake what Weasel said about minimizing bleeding as meaning you can nearly eliminate it. That's not going to be the case.

Bleeding will be better or worse depending on what type of music you're recording. If you're fingerpicking on the guitar, you're going to need a hotter signal going in and you're going to wind up with a lot of vocal bleeding onto the guitar track. On the flip side, if you're playing the guitar loudly, you won't need such a hot signal but you're going to get a lot of guitar bleeding onto the vocal track.

One possible semi-solution is to close-mic both the guitar and vocal but this will give you other issues you'll have to deal with (proximity effect).

I still strongly suggest that you take a little time to learn to play without singing (when I do it, I sing in my head to keep it sounding the way I want) and track individually. You'll get clean tracks and it'll make mixing a whole lot easier but if you're just doing this for shits and giggles, and you're not worried about making something that you're going to put out in public, then it doesn't matter.
 
I'm thinkin you're right,

I think for most songs I'll do that, but there are a couple covers I really want to do, where the timing is rather tricky.


If I was to try and double mic, should I use a small diaphragm condenser for acoustic and a large one for vocals?


I've heard the RODE NT-1 is a decent one for vocals?






And whats just a general all around mic that I could do both the guitar and the vocals with? Since you suggest doing it one track at a time? Thanks a ton for the help thus far!
 
I'm thinkin you're right,

I think for most songs I'll do that, but there are a couple covers I really want to do, where the timing is rather tricky.

If I was to try and double mic, should I use a small diaphragm condenser for acoustic and a large one for vocals?

Yeah, that's the way I'd do it. You probably want an LDC for the vocals. But then single micing a guitar with just an SDC gets tricky because finding the sweet spot becomes much more important. An SDC mic is usually going to give you a much brighter track than an LDC and you're going to have a find a spot that gives you some low end or the guitar might sound tinny.

I've never done it, but I'd start by pointing the mic at a spot on the guitar top about a diagonal inch away from high E string on the bridge moving away from the sound hole. Start there and find a spot to point the mic where you're getting a nice balanced sound.

Maybe some others here who've used a single SDC to record acoustic will chime in on this and give you some placement suggestions

I've heard the RODE NT-1 is a decent one for vocals?

I've never used that mic but I've heard enough good things about on here and other boards to think it would be okay for you.

And whats just a general all around mic that I could do both the guitar and the vocals with? Since you suggest doing it one track at a time? Thanks a ton for the help thus far!

I'm actually using a pair of LDC mics for the acoustic guitar tracks I'm recording now, the ADK A6. They sell for only $250 each and I'm loving them on acoustic fingerpicking tracks. I have no idea how they'd be for vocals though.

You can probably pick up the Rode on ebay for around $200. I'd get that first and see what you think. If the guitars need to brighten up a bit, then pic up an SDC, an MXL 603 would probably work out fine and could be gotten for well under $100. If the Rode/MXL combo doesn't shine for you, maybe pick up an A6 and team it up with the MXL for guitar and make the Rode your vocal mic. If you buy the first two used, you're still coming in at or under the $600 you didn't want to go above.
 
Some general thoughts (repeating, probably, what has already been said.

1 Recording vocals and guitars separately is the best way of getting a very manageable recording, i.e. having the capacity to work with either without messing up the other.

2 However, there is nothing evil about recording vocals and guitar at the same time. You will get cross-bleeding on the tracks, but that doesn't matter. That's something you live with (and is acceptable) for choosing to record that way.

3 You can reduce cross-bleeding a little bit by, say, having the vocal mike positioned so you sing up into it, and a guitar mike pointing downwards towards the guitar.

4 It is reasonable to use an LDC on your voice and an SDC on the guitar.

5 An NT1 is a reasonable choice.

6 If your guitar has a pickup you can go direct in, thus eliminating vocal bleed on the guitar track, but I am generally dissatisfied with acoustic guitar pick-up sounds.

7 You can try recording guitar and vocals simultaneously first, the record a new guitar by playing along with what you've done, then recording a new vocal to the new guitar track (or to the first track - singing along to yourself). You can then throw away the first track and keep the clean, new guitar and vocal tracks.

Best of luck!
 
7 You can try recording guitar and vocals simultaneously first, the record a new guitar by playing along with what you've done, then recording a new vocal to the new guitar track (or to the first track - singing along to yourself). You can then throw away the first track and keep the clean, new guitar and vocal tracks.
There it is :) -- I was blessed with not being able to sing at all, much less being able to sing and play at the same time, so I don't have this issue. But I do know at least a few people who do need to be playing and singing at the same time, and this will help me help them :D
 
Bleed is your friend but only if it is a manageable bleed with no serious artifacts to deal with. For this you will need very good mics. A SDC and an LDC is the ticket, but you want to select mics that have their patterns down tight. You dont want the mic on the guitar demonstrating a lot of lowend at the perimeters of its pattern as this will show up as added bass in the vocal track. Vice-versa also applies. I would avoid any cheap SDC's simply because of their tendency to be a bit bass heavy around their 'null'
 
Bleed is your friend but only if it is a manageable bleed with no serious artifacts to deal with. For this you will need very good mics. A SDC and an LDC is the ticket, but you want to select mics that have their patterns down tight. You dont want the mic on the guitar demonstrating a lot of lowend at the perimeters of its pattern as this will show up as added bass in the vocal track. Vice-versa also applies. I would avoid any cheap SDC's simply because of their tendency to be a bit bass heavy around their 'null'

I've never used one so I don't know, but would a hypercardioid SDC be a good option for this guy?
 
Unless the guy has a room that's well treated, he should probably stay away from that, no?
I've only done it a few times and it's been mono/mono, and 'solo acoustic & voice begs 'stereo' for the guit. Fiberglass is cheep and pretty effective though the mics'll ding ya. :) But they can have some very deep nulls, then just block and soak up the backsides. (Probably more proximity effect too.

...7 You can try recording guitar and vocals simultaneously first, the record a new guitar by playing along with what you've done, then recording a new vocal to the new guitar track (or to the first track - singing along to yourself). You can then throw away the first track and keep the clean, new guitar and vocal tracks.

Best of luck!
This is very cool idea all be it maybe time consuming.
Then there's 8) -Track the two as a single stereo pre-mix.
 
Hi. I've tried lots of different setups and find that I get best results using two AKG 414B XLII LDCs, one positioned about 6 inches from my nose with a pop screen, the other way down at the bottom right bout of my Guild dreadnought. I've set the bass roll-off switch on both 414s to 80kHz to reduce the proximity effect. Checking phase on the resultant waveforms shows minimal unalignment and the crossbleed is hardly noticable.

John
 
Hi. I've tried lots of different setups and find that I get best results using two AKG 414B XLII LDCs, one positioned about 6 inches from my nose with a pop screen, the other way down at the bottom right bout of my Guild dreadnought. I've set the bass roll-off switch on both 414s to 80kHz to reduce the proximity effect. Checking phase on the resultant waveforms shows minimal unalignment and the crossbleed is hardly noticable.

John


As I said, choose very good mics. The 414's certainly fit that bill.

Yes to a hyper-cardioid capsule on a SDC. But this is going to create a bit more work in finding the sweet spot on the guitar. Much experimentation will eventually show its true position.
 
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