New Automated Microphone

jimmys69 said:
I am only looking for guitar speaker cabinet mic adjustment remotely from my control room 20' or so from my tracking room. This would involve placement in front of a stationary speaker.

From a position with microphone placed directly in center of speaker cone: movement forward and back 12" total. Left/right movement 12" total (I am not so concerned with any tilt there with such a small range of movement needed). <that would not be so necessary for myself if up/down were also an option as you have already shown in your prototype.

I appreciate your honesty about cost. I actually just threw that number out to the guy/friend to hopefully get off his drunk ass and make me something. It just never worked out.

Seems like you have a better grip on reality as well as the resources to actually make it happen. I am more than willing to pay what is needed to make this come to fruition.

If needed and it helps, I can create demonstrations of the device in real world use.

Let's continue to discuss the possibilities here, but if we are going to talk directly about pricing and possible marketing we should speak via PM's about our personal endeavors. :)

Thanks McWeber! If that is indeed your real name..... :D

My name is Jimmy and gosh darn it-people like me. lol!
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Yea, this all seems like some pretty standard automation, Jimmy. The motion from left to right, are you talking about a motor that would pivot the boom from right to left and vice versa? That would be the easiest way to get that sort of movement. The 12" in/out is simple, and the up/down motion is doable. So, we're looking at three dimensions so far. Boom rotation, in/out and the up/down. The only other type of motion I might consider is the boom up/down, but it might not be necessary with the current up/down actuator. It could actually be a bit of overkill.

What I'm concerned about at this point is the aesthetics. Right now, the project has been rigged up with galvanized strapping. Not the most appealing, but it worked for this one. What I would consider if you're not that big on the look, is mounting the actuators by welding. That would probably be the cheapest way to go. There is also the possibility of getting custom clamps. They'll look better, but they'll also be a bit more expensive. Maybe more than a bit :P.

And yea, McWeber is my superhero incognito name. I can't have the public discovering my true identity :P. Some have taken to calling me Matthew. Haha. :)

And you're right, the straight left/right axis would be tough. We manufacture track actuators, which may be the key to doing that sort of motion, but the whole setup would be big and bulky. Not really entirely sure how that would work.

The controlling is probably the sweetest part. We have a bunch of different control options, with remotes that can handle multiple actuators. Although, we'll have a remote that can handle three actuators with presets. We have a controller app for Smart Phones and iPhones, which lets you record the presets, save them and bring them up. You can also control the actuator speed through this, bringing it down to zero, so accurate motions would be best controlled through that. I'm honestly thinking its going to give you the most versatility.

PM me whenever you're ready to talk about the cost of the project. But no rush.
 
Webby McWeber said:
Yea, this all seems like some pretty standard automation, Jimmy. The motion from left to right, are you talking about a motor that would pivot the boom from right to left and vice versa? That would be the easiest way to get that sort of movement. The 12" in/out is simple, and the up/down motion is doable. So, we're looking at three dimensions so far. Boom rotation, in/out and the up/down. The only other type of motion I might consider is the boom up/down, but it might not be necessary with the current up/down actuator. It could actually be a bit of overkill.

What I'm concerned about at this point is the aesthetics. Right now, the project has been rigged up with galvanized strapping. Not the most appealing, but it worked for this one. What I would consider if you're not that big on the look, is mounting the actuators by welding. That would probably be the cheapest way to go. There is also the possibility of getting custom clamps. They'll look better, but they'll also be a bit more expensive. Maybe more than a bit :P.

And yea, McWeber is my superhero incognito name. I can't have the public discovering my true identity :P. Some have taken to calling me Matthew. Haha. :)

And you're right, the straight left/right axis would be tough. We manufacture track actuators, which may be the key to doing that sort of motion, but the whole setup would be big and bulky. Not really entirely sure how that would work.

The controlling is probably the sweetest part. We have a bunch of different control options, with remotes that can handle multiple actuators. Although, we'll have a remote that can handle three actuators with presets. We have a controller app for Smart Phones and iPhones, which lets you record the presets, save them and bring them up. You can also control the actuator speed through this, bringing it down to zero, so accurate motions would be best controlled through that. I'm honestly thinking its going to give you the most versatility.

PM me whenever you're ready to talk about the cost of the project. But no rush.
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Ok Matthew McWeber. :D

I am ready to do what we need to do to make this happen. At least help pay for a prototype that we can work with/test and make this a useable/marketable device for myself and others.


So yeah, if left to right pivot of the boom is easiest (least expensive), then that would likely be the best for the prototype. In my use we would only be dealing with basically 6" of moving range from center of cone to edge. The radius would not be such an issue in that short of distance. In my needs the boom arm need be only long enough to accommodate actuator and its length of movement as well as appropriate counter balance for it's weight. The key would be the smoothness and precision of the the movement. Like 1/8" per second at most.

Up and down movement of the stand could do the same thing. Maybe it is just my set ways, but I always move a mic horizontally across a speaker in a cabinet. With a 4x12" cabinet, if you move it down to the edge you will start getting the sound of the speaker below. I suppose if I moved it upward instead, the same ability of having side to side movement would be given.

So, it is up/down or side to side movement that is most needed. Let's go with the least expensive for prototype and testing. In and out of the boom is also a necessity for me. We could start with just 12" of movement for each and move from there.

As far as the controller:

I would have no use for presets as every recording situation is different. I would place the mic in front of the speaker at a centered location and then move the mic remotely from there. I have two separate computers in my studio so no issue for me running via wireless or by cable. I am curious though what you mean by 'remote'. Are the actuators connected via USB or are there other means. I mean IR does not work through walls so I would assume that it would be wired to something right? Sorry, I am not so knowledgeable about this type of thing. I have numerous options but feel we should make sure to keep in mind the consumer who does not have a separate computer with network to use. Recording and connection to internet adapter is not something most are able to do with limited system power. Though, not sure those who don't would buy a product like this anyway...

Feel free to PM me with contact info or phone number so we can discuss this in more depth regarding expense and such. I still wish to keep hashing out details on forum here as I am sure input from others can do nothing but help in regards to others needs and uses.

If you are seriously down with this, let's get it built and start testing. I got a few bucks sitting around. :)

Jimmy
 
Not to dampen any enthusiasm here you understand!
But in respect of moving a mic across a guitar speaker cone would it not be more cost effective to use one of the readily available kit robotic arms?

I keep seeing these things in Maplin and keep resisting the urge to buy one because I have a score of other, better things I SHOULD be doing!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Not to dampen any enthusiasm here you understand!
But in respect of moving a mic across a guitar speaker cone would it not be more cost effective to use one of the readily available kit robotic arms?

I keep seeing these things in Maplin and keep resisting the urge to buy one because I have a score of other, better things I SHOULD be doing!

Dave.
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Well then post a link to something already made that will do what we are talking about...

If you have things more important to be doing, why are you wasting time commenting here without links to specific things that would waste our time less than you just have?

Just kidding! :)
 
jimmys69 said:
Well then post a link to something already made that will do what we are talking about...

If you have things more important to be doing, why are you wasting time commenting here without links to specific things that would waste our time less than you just have?

Just kidding! :)
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Whoah! You bucking for Greg's job???

Jus kidding.

Dave.
 
Clever, but pointless. It's also not remotely new. Electrically operated mic stands have been in use in theatres since the 1950s, and mics would appear through floor traps on cue. Most were cable operated from the wings, and silent, while I have seen others that have a chain drive to a small motor,fitted below the carriage, which travels in a rubber wheeled vertical cage. If we need a system that can make small subtle movements for precise mic placement it also needs to be silent. I can see that a longer actuator, with the mic attached to it could be handy, because you could do away with the stand, and being able to move a mic up and down to accommodate different height speakers would be handy, but it needs to be very quiet.
 
Okay, just a few things. The robotic arm would work wonderfully if ANY of my microphones could be lifted by it...i.e. 100 grams (and all the math whizzes and druggies say 28 grams to the ounce) or under 4 ounces. Not very useful, but if the motors could be beefed up or there's a model that can handle, say, 5-7 pounds...

Rob, why does it need to be quiet for a studio? As long as it doesn't make noise after I set it, who cares. It can run 90dB while I'm moving it as long as it's quiet when I hit the little button with the red circle...I could see, in a live performance it might need to be quiet, but 50-60 dB wouldn't be out of order even there, IMO.

If cost is equal (and from a look at the actuator website, I think it is), more is better. If you can get 12" in each direction for the same price as 6", that's probably the way to go. A small stand with a small boom and a stable base is the first order of business. Possibly find a stand bass that you want to use with the standard 5/8" threading and then build up from there. A trip to the local music store would be in order (like we hate doing that).
I think the problem is that most boom stands are tripod (for good reason), but if you rotate the boom, while extended, to a point between the legs you'll get tippage. Possible solution would be making your own stand with 6 or 8 legs.
Most round base stands don't have enough weight to work with a boom with distribution problems. But if you welded the base to a wider platform...1/4" x 6" steel cut in a + pattern that was 24" wide would be adequate without adding significant weight. but then you limit (a little) how close you can get with 6" sticking out from under a 12" mike stand base.

Considering the cost of some of the equipment we record and the cost of some of the mikes we record with, safety would need to be paramount. Slow movements over speed, stability added to flexibility and reliability will sell.
 
BroKen_H said:
if you rotate the boom, while extended, to a point between the legs you'll get tippage.
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This is actually where the actuator that extends the stand upward comes in handy. On the project, it's been rigged on the opposite side of stand, so the boom extends out the other way. It provides a bit of weight in the opposite direction of the mic. I just extended my boom all the way out in the middle of the legs just to check, and it holds up just fine. There's no tippage.

The placement of the actuator on the 12" extension would displace it a bit, but the majority of the weight will still be on that back end because the majority of the weight is there. Plus, the actuators that would be used for this are somewhere under 5lbs. They're really light, even though they look heavier.

The actuators that my company sells run under 45 dB. So I'm not too worried about that. Plus, there are some other ways to dampen the sound of the actuators if it's really intrusive.

Where there's a will there's a way.

Jimmy, I hear you on the remote situation. I'm talking about wireless remotes. Something like these guys here:

PA-29 AC Power Control Box | ActuatorZone

If you are in one room and have the remote in the other, it should work fine. If there is a substantial amount of metal in the wall, that may be an issue. If it does become an issue, then I think it would be best to use a rocker switch. The benefit being that it'd be wired and you can mount it somewhere in your control room that suits.

This is the rocker switch that I'm thinking, but you'd need three of them:
RC-03 Momentary Rocker Switch | ActuatorZone

There's also this badboy here. He's a two actuator controller joystick. Good for those Atari lovers.

RC-08 Joystick Switch Momentary - Four Directions | ActuatorZone
 
BroKen_H said:
A small stand with a small boom and a stable base is the first order of business.
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I'd like to hear more about the boom stand. How tall are we talking here? Two or three feet? Would it not be economical to just use a regular stand, bend it over and automate it that way?
 
For my particular needs 2 to 3 feet would be fine.

This would be more than adequate for me for final product. I use one for my vocal recoding mics. Large/heavy base. Would obviously need to cut down the post.

For the prototype however, maybe just use a more simple tripod stand that would not require re threading for the base as they just clamp in.


Oh, and check your messages and call me. Or give me your number. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
For my particular needs 2 to 3 feet would be fine.

For the prototype however, maybe just use a more simple tripod stand that would not require re threading for the base as they just clamp in.
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I fired a message back to you.

Yea, I'll make a trip down to the music shop and see what they've got in store. If it's cheaper for me to get a stand and then saw it down I'll do that.
 
Robot mic stand prototype has been delivered. :)

IT'S ALIVE!!!

Have new band coming in next week and will shoot some video/audio of the unit in use.

I am really looking forward to adjusting the mic on cab cranked by a Dual Rectifier in the guitar iso room from my comfy chair in the control room!

Thanx Webby! You rock!
 
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