Neumann TLM-103 or AKG Solid Tube?

caretaker9

New member
I'm sure these mics have been discussed before, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say about your experience with either mic (lots of new members!)... I've heard the TLM-103, although considered a 'budget' mic in the Neumann line, is a fine mic. But for that price (around $700), I could buy the Solid Tube, and still have enough money left over (give or take) to score an Audio Technica AT-4033... The latter sounds like a smarter purchase to me; love to hear what you all think... Thanks... By the way, these will be mostly utilized for vocals, and the occasional stringed instrument.
 
Well, two mic's can certainly be more useful than one in many recording situations. I didn't realize the SolidTubes had dropped so much in price. (When they first came out, they were selling for $1000!) So if you can get a 4033 and a SolidTube for the price of a TLM 103, that means they must be selling for about $350 now? Wow!!! I guess that says something about the mic.

Well, they certainly weren't worth the $1000, anyway. Personally, I like the sound of the 103 a lot better, but if you need two mics, I guess there's not really much debate. But curious as to why you are limiting yourself to just these two (or three) for consideration. Why not the KSM-27, or one of the Rodes, or one of the chinese mics (SP, Marshall, etc) ?
 
Littledog, thanks for the reply; sorry to mislead in any way, but I was shopping Ebay prices! So, the TLM-103 is solid... I just figured a tube mic would be a step above a large diaphragm... How would the other mics you mentioned rate alongside the TLM-103? I like the Shure KSM line. And an SP T-3 also looks like a solid choice. Basically, with 7 or 800 bones, would it be wise to get one 'kick-ass' mic, or two 'killer' mics...? Decisions, decisions...:D
 
KSM 27 not competing with TLM 103

Hello CT9,

I recently made a thorough comparative test with :
- TLM103
- RODE NTK
- KSM 27
with the following setup :
Mike > TL Audio 5051 tube preamp > Mackie Analog 24*8 > Mackie MDR 2496 > Mackie HR824.

I know : I could have directly connected the TL Audio to the MDR, but my patchbays are not yet in place in my studio...

I recorded both male ("Born to be wild" and "Baby I love your way") & female (Black velvet) vocals, lead and backings.

OK, the first outcome of the comparative test was obvious: the KSM does not serioulsy compete with the 2 other ones.

The choice was much more delicate between the Rode and the Neumann.
Finally, I acquired the TLM103, for more neutrality in the high range... (at least I needed a rationale for my brain peace).


Hope it helps,

Pat
Brussels
 
The Neumann TLM 103 I wont recommend in any situation. Too edgey for me.

The solidtube is smooth, but usually too dark for most vocals. I would recommend it if you had a bright sounding preamp.
 
Patrick, CyanJaguar... Thanks for sharing your experience with these mics... Has anyone heard the SP T-3? I'm anxious to hear what you might think of it! Again, thank you for the advice...:D
 
I use the Solid Tube, and it is dark, as mentioned, a lot like an AKG stage dynamic, it just suits some voices. The Neumann I don't own, but would probably go for an AKG414etc, and save for a U87. What you didn't tell us is what mics you already own. In the budget you named, there are no great do-it-all mics, but there are plenty of versatile mics that do a bunch of things well. There are also a few standouts that do one or two things very well. What are your needs? Don't just succumb to gear lust. Define the job before you select the tool. The Solid Tube is one of the latter examples, a mic that is very flattering to certain voices, but far from an all purpose mic. If your mic is mission critical, I would also advise you to have a tube on hand, and one of those 6 pin cables. They can be really hard to come by in a hurry if your cable is damaged. So what mics do you already have?- Richie
 
Hi Richard, Thanks for the response... This will be my first REAL mic purchase, and I'd like it geared toward a vocal workhorse... I own a couple of SM-57's, and a couple of low-line Audio-Technica mics (around $50 a piece). That, sadly, is currently it for my 'library'! :D That's why I'm in the market for a nice, to very nice, vocal mic. I should save a little more and snag the U87, you say? That sounds like a wise move in the long run; can't go wrong there! Thanks again, any more advice is certainly welcome!
:D Any other comparable models to the U87, in anyone's opinion?
 
Now you're talking big bucks. Be advised, the u87 is a $2000+ mic. In that range, you could get a great mic (I'm in love with B.L.U.E. KIWI. I'm sorry that I've never gotten to audition the big bottle). However, you would be plugging it into a signal chain that would not do justice to it for some time to come. My price range was a little more expansive, but I had to sweat costs on every part of the signal chain. My choice was Studio Projects C3 and a pair of Oktava MC012 small diaphragms. I have not used MXL603's, but the mic gods seem to love them. Add to this a fair preamp and some good cables, and you will have made a credible start. This forum is a treasure trove of info. on affordable condenser mics, and there are a lot of available options. My best advice is to take time to research your options before blowing money on tools made to do the wrong job. Best of luck.-Richie
 
the tlm103 is known as a u87 with a single cardiod pattern. it uses the same capsule and has the "same" sound.

the tlm 103 is highly regarded and recommended as a low cost u87.

you really couldnt go wrong with it, other ppls' bad experiences notwithstanding. after all some ppls dont like the u87.
 
I expect the experienced mic tech people here will explain to you that a TLM-103 and a U87 are two different race horses altogether. As I understand it TLM-103's capsule is "based on" the U87's. TLM-103 seems to be Neumann's best attempt to compete in the prosumer market with the Russians,Chinese, Aussie's, etc., and is a highly regarded mic in its price range. A U87, a mic I *have* auditioned, it is not, to my limited ears.-Richie
 
I have a pair of TLM-103's that I use to mic my grand piano. For that application, in my room, with my chain, it is gorgeous!
I haven't used the AKG you mentioned, but if they've dropped that much in price, it does say a lot about the mic.
I just got, yesterday, in my hot little hands, The SP T3. I haven't used it yet though, so I really don't know enough about it.
If you have $700 to spend on a vocal mic, you could do worse that a TLM-103, but I tend to agree with CJ, It wouldn't be my first choice for vocals.
The Shure SM81 is beautiful on strings! ($350 or so)
The Shure SM7 (read seven not 57) is a nice choice for vocals too. But it is of course a dymanic mic, and it sounds like you've got your heart set on a condensor mic, maybe a tube condensor at that. I wish I could tell you more about the SP T3... maybe in the next couple of weeks or so, I'll have put it through its paces.
 
Richie... You make some good points regarding the U87, and I do have plans to use a pair of MXL 603s for drum overheads; I'm glad they have a good rep around here!

Jeap... You are right about the varying opinion factor.... but it's nice to read the consensus from all of you, and run some averages! Thanks!

Michael... Thanks for your take on the TLM-103; I shall look into that SM7... and I can't WAIT for your review of the SP T-3! Looking forward to it!

Henri... How is the sound of the KSM44? Dark, bright, or somewhere in between? I've heard good things about it, and the KSM32 as well... Thanks for the tip.:D
 
First you have to remember that the Solidtube is not a "tube" mic, any more than the Behringer or ART preamps that have a tube stuck in them are "tube" preamps - they are all hybrid designs. So if you are buying just to get the "tube" cachet, you're not even really accomplishing that!

As far as a U-87 goes, i hope i'm not offending anyone's religion as this is obviously strictly my opinion, but i feel they are overpriced and overrated. Lawson, Brauner, and Soundeluxe have similarly priced or cheaper models that blow the U87 away. You should definitely do some comparison testing.
 
jeap said:
the tlm103 is known as a u87 with a single cardiod pattern. it uses the same capsule and has the "same" sound.

the tlm 103 is highly regarded and recommended as a low cost u87.

you really couldnt go wrong with it, other ppls' bad experiences notwithstanding. after all some ppls dont like the u87.

hunh?

Sorry to dissapoint you, but the tlm103 does not use the same capsule as the u87 and does not have anywhere near the "same" sound.

Michael, a drop in price of the solidtube says nothing really. The tlm 103 was $1000 when it came out and now it can be had for less than $700.

Caretaker, I have not really heard a mic for less than $1000 that is a great vocal mic, with the exception of a lovely sounding ADK tube mic(I wont recommend it cos I have only heard it once)

You can run an original sounding u87 through a mackie and it would still blow all these cheapies out of the ocean.
Good choice on the 4033 thoughl. That is one versatile ,nice sounding mic.
 
The TLM103 is a very nice mic but not as diverse as some others. Its very bright and has a very forward midrange that generally needs some adjusting to sit right in a mix. The cool thing about it though is where the 4033 can get honky, the tlm103 never does.

Along with the usual suspects I would take a look at these:

AT4047- a dark round milky sound with no edge, no hyped midrange, just smoooovve from top to bottom.

B.L.U.E dragonfly - incredible sounding mic, has this very energetic, excited quality which is mostly the aggressive B.L.U.E midrange which I happen to dig. Not a good *only* condenser choice. Its good in a cabinet with some more neutral mics like the ksm44, AT4050, NT1000, etc. Can be had for around $7-800

B.L.U.E. blueberry - maybe the most diverse affordable blue mic around $1k, its smoother and less aggressive than other blue mics but still has the BLUE very tight detailed low mids and the excited BLUE midrange. Nice air too.

B.L.U.E mouse - more of the same in a real good way.
 
Yeah, I have a BLUE Mouse, I concur; somewhat.
This is a great vocal mic -- on some vocals -- not so great on others. Definately something you have to match to the task.
I was lucky, and I got mine through a consignment sale at a fraction of the cost, but at a street price of near $1600-$1700, it didn't seem worthy of mention in this thread.
 
if anyone is still reading, here's my take...I helped a friend out, tracking vocals in his studio...(he was singing and didn't want to run between rooms) He simply setup the akg tube, the u87 and the 414 (not sure which version) We tried one of his api preamps as well as his trident console (which we ended up using) The akg was the winner by far.

The warmth was outstanding and impressive. Not to say I wouldn't love to have the other mics, but in that instance it was akg hands down.
 
Although I would trade the Solid Tube for a U87 in a heartbeat. I have found it to be an excellent vocal mic, which I switch off with the more transparent C3. The self noise is low for a tube mic, and for the record, the price has dropped from $1100 to about $700. With all due respect, Littledog, I think you underestimate this mic, and often hybrid design achieves the goal of adding color with less self noise. I'm very happy with it at its price point. -Richie
 
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