Neumann KM184 VS Oktava MC012

Bambi Busboom

New member
Mates,

NOTE: Those with little time and no interest in my microphone history may wish to pop down this post to the section beginning "FINALLY- TO THE POINT:"

Today, I dropped round a friend's house to look in on the kit he's planning to use next week for a solo paino CD recording. He will be taking his stuff to the local Steinway Hall and for three day be recording various classical "miniatures" on a Steinway B.

His other four albums have all been professionally engineered, but this time he wants to manage the whole thing with his own stuff.

His stuff: 2- Neumann KM184 small diaphram condensers > MOTU 828 > firewire> to Powerbook G4 1.35GhZ /200GB HD> Digital Performer editing> CD master

My friend was not sure though if he was getting the best results from using the internal microphone preamps in the MOTU, so I took over my Peavey VMP-2 microphone preamp. The Peavey is a two channel all- tube preamp with tube EQ- which I think was incredible value at $650. Mine is stock except for a long evolution of tube choices. I find it to very impressive sounding and has the best characteristics of real tube amplification as compared to the many mic pres with a "tube warmth" control working off a single 12AX7. [VMP-2 tubes: 2- sylvania black plate square getter 12AX7s, 2- Sylvania black plate, sqaure getter triple mica 5751s, 2- GE grey plate two mica 5751s and 2- Valvo (Philips,Holland) gold pin 6201s (12AT7)]

Well, I shouldn't go on about the Peavey as it didn't turn out to be the star of the afternoon.

For fun, I took along my pair of Oktava MC012s. When I was shopping for microphones four or five years ago an engineer friend lent me some nice ones including Schoeps CMC6/MK4, AKG 391, and Neumann KM84. The Schoeps were absolutely superb, but at over $1200 each- untouchable for my home recording. The next in line were the KM84's and these were just wonderfully refined- smooth, balanced through the range, detailed wihtout fuss, and quite open sounding. These seemed very easy to place for good results as compared to the AKG C414 B/ULSs which were trying hard, but I could never get right.

Very nice the KM84s wre, they were no longer made and expensive used, so the alternative was the modernized verision in the KM184. My engineer friend thught told me he thought the KM184s were not as refined as the KM84 and a little hard on the top.

Well, the KM184 were also then over $500 each and I still bristled at that amount for recording practice sessions at home and my ocassional voice tracks for my radio programme- for which I could borrow an EV RE-20 which works really well for me- better for me than Neumnn U89 and AT 4050.

But then FLASH- the Oktava MC012 popped into view- a supposed copy of the KM84 - and then only $160 each. I went to Guitar Center and went into theior mic preamp room with 14 MC102s and found two that sounded alike and wwere similar output. Gosh, were these all over the map! But I could hear the relationship to the KM84s- the smoothness and balance- perhaps a but darker.

FINALLY-TO THE POINT: At my friends' house we set up the Neumann KM184s , to the Peavey VMP-2 into the MOTU 828, and onto the G4 and Digital performer. after a couple of changed of cable- these thinner Mogamis were found to be a bu it bass shy compared to hicker Monsters- we tried the Neumanns with more fussing with position. This ended up halfway between the hammers and lid about 12" about 8" behind the hammers.

The KM184 were just as expected, but as compared (and as my enginner friend mentioned four years ago) to the KM84's the treble seemed a bit harder. overall the sound was excellent. we did everything without EQ anf then pplayed with some reverb form his ecxellent Lexicon reverb unit (sorry don;t know the model) and avoided his DBz compressor limiter.

But, after awhile I asked if I could just plug in my Oktava MC012s > as I bought them to stand in for KM84s -and th KM194 are the successors to that one, I wondered if the Oktavas would be an embarssment. I thought the Oktavas were be muddy and rooled off but, my friend actually prefferred the Oktavas slightly darker quality on a couple of recordings. The detail and openness was about the same.

I think we did not have the optimum placement, but in this comparison I would judge the Oktavas to have such a substantial portion of the sound quality of the Neumanns, that I am completely dropping my ambition for the KM184s- and will just save up for the Schoeps- for 2020!

My friend was quite perturbed at the similarity between his $650 and- now- $100 microphones, so much so I bought him a calming lunch.

Bargain hunting pays off!

Cheers

Bambi B

-sorry this is so long!
 
As it turns out, I own a pair of KM184's, a pair of MC012's, and a pair of Studio Projects C-4's. There's some stuff that calls for one or the other, and I don't intend to sell any of them any time soon.The Oktavas are darker and more colored, and rock as rock/blues overheads. The high end detail of the Neumanns is not matched by the others, and I would not call it hard, but on some sources, I do tend to roll off the highs a little. I would have owned the Schoeps if Macmidimusic had honored their on line price, but they tried to jack up the price $500 *after* the order was placed.- Not. Frankly, I like the Neumanns just fine.-Richie
 
I'll agree on the MC-012 assesment. They've always been a bargain workhorse that can really surprize some people. Way under-priced, for the most part.

You might want to give the Audio Technica 4051's a spin sometime. Depending on your taste, you might find those to be a decent step up, actually, from Neumanns. Or you might not. :D Opinions tend to be mixed, but they are different enough, and I know some people who really think highly of them.
 
Seems like you found an application where the Octava really shined -- great! I think I need a pair of those! :)

I do a lot of tenor sax recording and used many different mics (including much more expensive LDCs). The KM184 beat every single mic I have ever used, mainly due to the crystal clear & crisp high end sound.
 
Oktava

My Oktavas 012 told me to get rid of my Dark crashes.
They have no wash. :)
On to brighter cymbals :D
 
don't forget the scott dorsey mod for the oktava MK012...it really cleans up the sound and balances it out :D .
 
Big Kenny said:
where can I get this mod?

It was in an issue of Recording Magazine.

I just read it not too long ago. I'm currently at work and don't recall which issue. I can dig it up when I get home. I was interested in giving the mod a try but Scott warns that the mod is not for the faint of heart and it really helps to have electronics mod experience before attempting this. Considering I have only used a soldering gun for very minor touch ups, I wanted to get a basic electronics course under my belt before I run the risk ruining my mics.

John
 
oktava mod

JohnnyMan said:
It was in an issue of Recording Magazine.

I just read it not too long ago. I'm currently at work and don't recall which issue. I can dig it up when I get home. I was interested in giving the mod a try but Scott warns that the mod is not for the faint of heart and it really helps to have electronics mod experience before attempting this. Considering I have only used a soldering gun for very minor touch ups, I wanted to get a basic electronics course under my belt before I run the risk ruining my mics.

John

It was in september 2003 I think. I found a copy of it online at www.tbrstudio.com but it seems to have been removed.

The parts suggested are as follows --

R1, R2 1G resistors
C6 820pF COG ceramic
C2 10uF 25V tantalum
C3, C4 68uF 63V electrolytic
C5 47uF 40V electrlytic
Q1 2SK170BL FET
Q2 2N5087

Try to get a schematic if you can't I might draw one time permitting
 
oktavaMod is still there

All,
I Appreciate the link to my studio (saw the hit on my tracker). The OKTAVA 012 mod is still on the site.

Go to www.tbrstudio.com

then go to the HELP section.

you will see it there as well as some other Pro Tools things that I setup for people on the DUC.

thanks again,
- Doc
 
IntelDoc said:
All,
I Appreciate the link to my studio (saw the hit on my tracker). The OKTAVA 012 mod is still on the site.

Go to www.tbrstudio.com

then go to the HELP section.

you will see it there as well as some other Pro Tools things that I setup for people on the DUC.

thanks again,
- Doc

Welcome! Thanks for that link, I'm sure there'll be plenty of interest in it. Hope you'll stick around and chat :)
 
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