Need suggestions for Large condenser $1K or less

JeffreyC

New member
Ok - I know these kinds of threads are a pain, but I'll try and provide as much detail as I can.

I'm looking for an excellent large condenser mic to record acoustic guitar, male vocals (mine), and possibly distant electric guitar miking to mix with a 57. I like warm smooth sounds, so typically I like tubes but I'm open to anything.

You can get an idea of what my voice and acoustic guitar sound like now here -


This was recorded using a Senn e865 (live cond) for vocal and stereo Rode NT5's for acoustic guitar - directly into a Yamaha AW1600 - might have used an Art Tube Pro Channel on the vocal.

I've sold the AW1600 since then and now use an RME Fireface 800 which has much better on board preamps. In the future I plan to buy a nice external preamp to try as well.

Thanks and let me know if I can provide more info that will help.

Some mics I've been considering:

AKG C 414 B-XL II
AKG C 414 B-XLS
Neumann TLM-103
Groove Tube GT-67
Rode K2
ADK TT
 
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...you're missing the most heralded (under $1000. though barely) tube condenser mic on your list, the Mojave (Royer) MA200...best-bang-for-the-buck tube condenser mic in the price range (used around $700, http://cgi.ebay.com/MOJAVE-MA-200_W...:2|66:3|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14):

http://www.proaudioreview.com/article/272
http://emusician.com/mics/emusic_mojave_audio_ma-200/
http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_mojave_ma_tube/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MA200/reviews/#anchor
http://www.goldenagemusic.se/swe/proaudio/mojaveaudio/What the reviews say.pdf

...I've got an early prototype (built by Royer) and it's amazing!...I also have a Rode K2, Studio Projects T3, SE Z5600, original Royer tube modded MXL 2001, Cascade V55, MXL V77 (w/NOS GE 6071 upgrade), among others...the MA200 stands out, although the Rode K2, SP t3 and MXL V77 are also great values at lower price points...but the MA200 is a real value...versatile and outstanding on just about anything you point it at...;)

PS...not a fan of the C414 nor the Groove Tubes GT67...have used both and neither was particularly impressive or versatile (JMTC)
 
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I have used the ADK TT on quite a few occasions and love that thing. None of the other mics in your list could be considered 'warm' of themselves.....but they are accurate and can be 'warm' with the right signal chain. I havent heard the Mojave but I have a bit of time on other Royer models and can testify to their quality.

Please dont leave out of your search the Audio Technicas.....specifically the 4050, 4047, and the 4060 if you can find one.
 
See if you can snag a used Gefell MT71 (transformerless) or M71 (with transformer). These are the cardioid only version of the multipattern M70 or MT70. If you get lucky you might find one of those for under a grand too. A really really great do it all mic. They aren't tube mics, but they are very accurate and have great presence.

The AT4050 is a good workhorse mic, but if you are willing to spend more, you can get something better. I have two of them and they get used a lot, especially for instruments and overheads. They aren't generally my top choice for vocals though.

The C414 is a nice multipurpose mic, but I've never been that impressed with it on vocals. It is a great instrument mic though. I've not used all the various permutations of the C414, but have liked the B-ULS version better that some of the others.

Of the Groove Tubes mics, I prefer the older original tube line to the newer stuff. The MD1a, MD2a and MD3a (and their non "a" predecessors) are still the better mics, IMHO. You should be able to find any of them used for under $1K. I have a bunch of GT mics, and those are the ones I like best, by far.

The TLM103, while OK on some things, is not that great a mic. Neumann is trading on the cachet of the name. I think there are now better mics available for the same money. I'd much rather have a Gefell, for instance.

I've not tried the Rode, ADK, or the Mojave.
 
If there is any chance you could actually go try a couple of these mics somewhere, that would be advisable.

You can't go wrong with an akg C414 or an Audio Technica AT4050. In my opinion, the 414 B-xls is a little smoother than the 414 B-XL II.

A blue kiwi smokes them both, but that will be a little harder to find for under a grand.I have not used the MA200, but would not hesitate to buy it solely on reputation ($$$ permitting).

If you can't try before you buy, at least buy something in decent condition used. That way, you can sell it if you don't like it and try something else.
 
Hmm. I'd forgotten about the Blue Kiwi. Good call. That's a really good mic. Used ones show up with some frequency over on the GS board and are typically priced at @$1000. There are a couple for sale there currently.

Definitely try before you buy if at all possible.
 
Don't discount the Studio Projects T3.................if you have any doubts, ask Harvey Gerst;)

:cool:
 
Thanks for all the suggestions so far - anything else - Peluso? Pealman?

If I'm willing to spend $1200, would that make much of a difference?

Oh, and unfortunately, I probably won't be able to try all of these - I might be able to find a few at GC.
 
More sub $1000 mics

I have purchased many mics over the past few years and have liked many large diapragm condensors such as the Rode K2 & NT2, Peluso 22 251, Advanced Audio CM47 Fet, Studio Projects C1 (Vers 2) & B1, B3 (Vers 1), Cad GXL 3000 & Trion 8000, Neumann TLM 49, Shure KSM44, and Blue Blueberry. The mic that has been seeing a lot of use for me is the Studio Projects CS5 - I heard some buzz about it over on Gearslutz and decided to try it based on their comments and my own experience with some of their mics. This one is higher in quality to all studio projects mics I have tried (imho). It has a roll off switch for high freq's as well as low freq's and many polar patterns. I use it for lead vocals with the 15k rolloff engaged and do background vocals with no rolloff and it sounds great. This mic is also great for acoustic guitar - again I use the 15k rolloff here. The mic is available for $499 on the -bay and for that price you can't go wrong in my opinion. I think it is more versatile than most mics in my collection. I run my home studio on a mac with logic and use a apogee duet - so I am not a big studio!!!
Hope this helps!!!
 
Thanks for all the suggestions so far - anything else - Peluso? Pealman?

If I'm willing to spend $1200, would that make much of a difference?

Oh, and unfortunately, I probably won't be able to try all of these - I might be able to find a few at GC.

The Pearlman TM-1, which is a great mic, is still out of your price range I'm afraid. Used TM-1s go for @$1400-1500. The TM-2 lists at @$1000, but I've not used it or heard it. It would be worth looking into though.

Another mic which you might want to try is the Neumann TLM49. Used ones go for @$1000. Some people really like them and some people haven't been that impressed. It would certainly be worth a try though as the used price is pretty attractive.
 
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My friend and I a/b'd a TLM 49 v. CAD Trion 8000 which is tube. He liked the added girth the TLM 49 gave his voice - he is a breathy tenor. I preferred the Trion for my voice which was was more complimentary to my baritone voice as it is more open up top. My friend has however been wanting to buy a Trion to go with his TLM 49 ever since then! So what kind of voice do you have and what kind of characteristics are you looking for? Sound quality was comparable to me - although I do not feel the build quality of the CAD was on par - needless to say! Some people consider the AT4047 as a affordable alternative to the TLM 49 it uses a transformer which also gives some coloration to your sound - somewhat like what the TLM supposedly does. I do not have a AT4047 - maybe someone else can comment on that one.
 
So what kind of voice do you have and what kind of characteristics are you looking for?

Thx so much for your posts. I have a link in my first post to a song I recorded. That's my voice and my acoustic guitar.

I prefer smooth highs and a nice warm sound - for ex. I love the Smile track on Gilmour's recent On an Island record, but I'm not sure what's going to be the best match for my voice. Some people say I sound a bit like Dylan/Neil Young. I don't have a huge vocal range and I'm more of a guitar player/songwriter than I am a "singer".

Does that help some? Man, there are so many choices out there it's overwhelming.:confused:
 
Out of the mics you have listed - I would say the K2 would fit the warm smooth sound you are after, the akg 414's are supposedly great instrument mics (vocals not so much). I still think you'd like the CS5 too - it is not too hyped - but is also not tube! Let us know how it turns out!
 
That really depends on what version of C414 you are using...the LD condensers are best for the girl singers...my voice is best with an SM7 dynamic.
 
I (and all of my clients) have been very happy with the Peluso's. For what is being described, I would look into the 2247, but a P12 may fit the bill as well. Of course my opinion could easily be considered biased because I am a Peluso dealer.
 
Ok, I heard the Peluso's are made in China now as well as the Mojave...I'm reading that's not a good thing. For $1000 + in the used market, I would hope to get something not made in China - :).
 
I'm pretty sure Peluso gets the metal work done in China, but does other steps (like assembling/tensioning/testing the diaphragm) at his shop in VA -- at least I think so. I don't know anything about Mojave. I've got a non-Peluso mic that has a recently-installed Peluso capsule (it's an ACM-6802T, and also has a new transformer - Marik did the mod), and so far I'm liking it a lot -- still learning how to use it. Just a data point for you -- I generally don't have much to say about mics in this price range, because of lack of experience, so keep that in mind.

But since I'm posting, I can say that I do have an AKG C414B-ULS, and I use it a lot for non-vocal tasks. It may be that I generally work with poor vocalists (certainly true), but it's rarely what I use for vocals because it's too revealing :D -- it does seem somewhat forgiving of poor microphone technique - maybe the cardioid pattern is wider than what I'm used to (it is, of course, a muti-pattern mic, but I normally use cardioid for vocals). Might be just the ticket for someone with a great voice who dances around and stuff.
 
I own the MA-200 and love it..it doesn't work on everything, but it's a great LDC. I also love the Peluso mic and the C414...both great choices. The Shure KSM44 holds its own in this class as well.

Any of them would be a great choice.

Frank
 
The Neumann TLM49 is good on vox for cutting through a thick mix. If you're doing a lot of backround vocals it's great.

The bass is rolled off and it has a peak right around where siblance becomes an issue (eh...). This makes it sound a bit thin at slight a distance but if you use close proximity it can sound absolutley huge. You're going to want a singer who can control their siblance very carefully if you use the TLM49. It's polar opposite would be a Shure SM7 or a typical ribbon in that sense.

If you're not doing a lot of stacked backround vocals I'd consider something a bit thicker. If you don't have a ribbon I'd go for that first as most ribbons handle both guitar and vocals fairly well.
 
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